EU - Have we gone too far?

So - Do we want a referendum on the EU debate?

  • Yes Please I'm not happy.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No Thanks I'm very happy indeed.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Whats the EU?

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
#1
Simple questions really.

Did Phony Tony keep to the "Red Lines" he said he would?

Is the latest treaty just the Constitution in disguise?

Is Angela Merkel a bit gozzy eyed? :wink:
 
#2
I seem to recall that we once had the chance to vote for joining something called the Common Market. It was soon transformed into something very different . . . wouldn't it be nice to have a vote about joining a Federal Europe? We won't get one though.
 
#3
We should have a referendum as getting more into the EU and taking more treaties etc. is handing control to a body not in the UK and not with the UK at the top of the pile.

I would personally like a public vote on every bit of EU legislation that is attempted to pass into the UK. Yes i'm a Eurosceptic. :thumleft:
 
#4
It will never happen. You know they know whats best for us. :(
 
#5
ericthellama said:
I seem to recall that we once had the chance to vote for joining something called the Common Market. It was soon transformed into something very different . . . wouldn't it be nice to have a vote about joining a Federal Europe? We won't get one though.
A common misconception that we were given a vote to go into the common market. Ted Heath signed us up before we were given the vote and after we were ties economically to the common market we were given a vote as to whether we should stay in or suffer all the problems of leaving after we had abandoned the commonwealth.
 
#6
The_Goon said:
We should have a referendum as getting more into the EU and taking more treaties etc. is handing control to a body not in the UK and not with the UK at the top of the pile.

I would personally like a public vote on every bit of EU legislation that is attempted to pass into the UK. Yes i'm a Eurosceptic. :thumleft:
My bold. Well - I must admit so am I, but I thought I would pose the question as neutrally as I could.

My reasons for wanting one - well I want my say. Yes I am a recovering Gobsh1te! :D

As for Merkel - Definite hint of Dip and Dazzle about those eyes.....
 
#7
The European Soviet Union is a disgraced, dishonest and wholly disreputable organization providing a 'super-trough' for failed and has-been politicians.

It is controlled and wholly governed by the whims of unelected, unaccountable and inauditable commissars (Mandelson, Kinnock, Patten etc).

The disgusting and treacherous Bliar has, in his last days in office, more or less ended GB as a sovereign and independent nation.
 
#8
I hate the EU. My friend has an Economics A-Level and thinks it's good. I try and say that sovereign authority etc. is under a mjor threat by the EU, but he seems blinkered by the suggested benefits of the EU...

Is he right, or am I right, or is it a mix?
 
#9
The_Goon said:
I hate the EU. My friend has an Economics A-Level and thinks it's good. I try and say that sovereign authority etc. is under a mjor threat by the EU, but he seems blinkered by the suggested benefits of the EU...

Is he right, or am I right, or is it a mix?
An Economics A-level, your friend has clearly been educated beyond common sense, Your right so bitch slap some sense into your mate :wink:
 

Alsacien

LE
Moderator
#10
The_Goon said:
I hate the EU. My friend has an Economics A-Level and thinks it's good. I try and say that sovereign authority etc. is under a mjor threat by the EU, but he seems blinkered by the suggested benefits of the EU...

Is he right, or am I right, or is it a mix?
He is right from an economic perspective, and you are entitled to your opinion and interpretation of sovereignty.

I wonder how you came to "hate" the EU? Have ever worked in an EU institution, or knew someone who did? Do you really understand how it works and what it does? Have even been in an institution and seen it firsthand?
Or did you gain your opinion from the media which we trust and love so much?

I am not having a dig at you personally, and I am neutral regarding the EU, but I find myself defending it against a general lack of understanding.
 
#11
Will do, Saladmonkey! :D

Alsacien, you're right, I'm not overly certain about the workings of the EU, and much of my knowledge of it is gleaned from the media reports. I did do an AS-Level in Economics (translation: Doesn't stand for an awful lot!) and did look at the EU, if only briefly.

I found it to be a most distressing "organisation" (term used loosely) and was amazed by the bureaucratic methods. You just have to look at the way they've dealt with fishing in the EU, the way subsidies work in many areas, et al, and I personally became disillusioned.

Do you have a good experience of the EU, or a different one?
 
#12
The_Goon said:
I hate the EU. My friend has an Economics A-Level and thinks it's good. I try and say that sovereign authority etc. is under a mjor threat by the EU, but he seems blinkered by the suggested benefits of the EU...

Is he right, or am I right, or is it a mix?
If the economics A-level is anything like the IT one then it is worth a total amout of...nothing.
 
#13
Doesn't matter if we have a referendum. As soon as we vote no some other numpty will come along rename it and keep it going until we get that fed up and vote yes.
 
#14
Alsacien said:
The_Goon said:
I hate the EU. My friend has an Economics A-Level and thinks it's good. I try and say that sovereign authority etc. is under a mjor threat by the EU, but he seems blinkered by the suggested benefits of the EU...

Is he right, or am I right, or is it a mix?
He is right from an economic perspective, and you are entitled to your opinion and interpretation of sovereignty.

I wonder how you came to "hate" the EU? Have ever worked in an EU institution, or knew someone who did? Do you really understand how it works and what it does? Have even been in an institution and seen it firsthand?
Or did you gain your opinion from the media which we trust and love so much?

I am not having a dig at you personally, and I am neutral regarding the EU, but I find myself defending it against a general lack of understanding.
Econimic perspective is great. Just fcuk off trying to change all our laws.
 
#15
Heedthebaw said:
Simple questions really.

Did Phony Tony keep to the "Red Lines" he said he would?

Is the latest treaty just the Constitution in disguise?

Is Angela Merkel a bit gozzy eyed? :wink:
Now look what you've done - everybody arguing again!

NO
YES

She does look abit like a squaddie who's been up all night drinking beer and watching zoologically-themed films not of the National Geographic type.
 

Alsacien

LE
Moderator
#16
The_Goon said:
Will do, Saladmonkey! :D

Alsacien, you're right, I'm not overly certain about the workings of the EU, and much of my knowledge of it is gleaned from the media reports. I did do an AS-Level in Economics (translation: Doesn't stand for an awful lot!) and did look at the EU, if only briefly.

I found it to be a most distressing "organisation" (term used loosely) and was amazed by the bureaucratic methods. You just have to look at the way they've dealt with fishing in the EU, the way subsidies work in many areas, et al, and I personally became disillusioned.

Do you have a good experience of the EU, or a different one?
I have both good and bad experiences, which is why I am neutral. I guess I could summarise by saying I believe it could be a good thing for all, not that it is. I also try and separate out my naturally nationalistic perspective as it does not aid objective thought and unfortunately the empire is no more.
The objectives of the EU are good, noble and forward thinking.
The politicians involved are human [yeah, cough] and have their own views on how to achieve those objectives - but they are transient like all politicians with some good and some bad ones.

A good experience?
I worked on a project linked to the Euro launch. The potential for the largest international project failure existed, but the transition went off exactly as planned - better even.
Does anyone (with project management experience) really think it would be possible to bring in a completely new currency simultaneously in a dozen countries, if everyone was really swimming in a sea of incompetent bureaucrasy?
 
#17
Alsacien said:
The_Goon said:
Will do, Saladmonkey! :D

Alsacien, you're right, I'm not overly certain about the workings of the EU, and much of my knowledge of it is gleaned from the media reports. I did do an AS-Level in Economics (translation: Doesn't stand for an awful lot!) and did look at the EU, if only briefly.

I found it to be a most distressing "organisation" (term used loosely) and was amazed by the bureaucratic methods. You just have to look at the way they've dealt with fishing in the EU, the way subsidies work in many areas, et al, and I personally became disillusioned.

Do you have a good experience of the EU, or a different one?
I have both good and bad experiences, which is why I am neutral. I guess I could summarise by saying I believe it could be a good thing for all, not that it is. I also try and separate out my naturally nationalistic perspective as it does not aid objective thought and unfortunately the empire is no more.
The objectives of the EU are good, noble and forward thinking.
The politicians involved are human [yeah, cough] and have their own views on how to achieve those objectives - but they are transient like all politicians with some good and some bad ones.

A good experience?
I worked on a project linked to the Euro launch. The potential for the largest international project failure existed, but the transition went off exactly as planned - better even.
Does anyone (with project management experience) really think it would be possible to bring in a completely new currency simultaneously in a dozen countries, if everyone was really swimming in a sea of incompetent bureaucracy?
And this man launched the Euro :?

Just kidding Alsacien! :twisted:

You have confirmed what I thought - Eurocrats can't even SPELL bureaucracy! 8O :D
 

Alsacien

LE
Moderator
#18
Heedthebaw said:
Alsacien said:
The_Goon said:
Will do, Saladmonkey! :D

Alsacien, you're right, I'm not overly certain about the workings of the EU, and much of my knowledge of it is gleaned from the media reports. I did do an AS-Level in Economics (translation: Doesn't stand for an awful lot!) and did look at the EU, if only briefly.

I found it to be a most distressing "organisation" (term used loosely) and was amazed by the bureaucratic methods. You just have to look at the way they've dealt with fishing in the EU, the way subsidies work in many areas, et al, and I personally became disillusioned.

Do you have a good experience of the EU, or a different one?
I have both good and bad experiences, which is why I am neutral. I guess I could summarise by saying I believe it could be a good thing for all, not that it is. I also try and separate out my naturally nationalistic perspective as it does not aid objective thought and unfortunately the empire is no more.
The objectives of the EU are good, noble and forward thinking.
The politicians involved are human [yeah, cough] and have their own views on how to achieve those objectives - but they are transient like all politicians with some good and some bad ones.

A good experience?
I worked on a project linked to the Euro launch. The potential for the largest international project failure existed, but the transition went off exactly as planned - better even.
Does anyone (with project management experience) really think it would be possible to bring in a completely new currency simultaneously in a dozen countries, if everyone was really swimming in a sea of incompetent bureaucracy?
And this man launched the Euro :?

Just kidding Alsacien! :twisted:

You have confirmed what I thought - Eurocrats can't even SPELL bureaucracy! 8O :D
Nah, a Eurocrat would have sent the posting to the linguistic department, the waited for the relevant committee to make a decision, collected the appropriate signature(s), then posted (via registered mail) 3 hard copies to the MODS for inclusion within a specified timeframe (to be negotiated).

I thought I would just type and post instead :D
 
#19
Its all a load of co*ck, even if we were not in the EU they would still trade with us, by joining the EuroClub, they get to say what we do and we get to pay them for the pleasure!!
 

Alsacien

LE
Moderator
#20
BeerFun! said:
Its all a load of co*ck, even if we were not in the EU they would still trade with us, by joining the EuroClub, they get to say what we do and we get to pay them for the pleasure!!
Which EU institution or economic thinktank were you working in when you formed this in depth conclusion :?

Or is it a summary of some things you read in the papers :?
 

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