EU gun police to hunt suspects in Britain

#1
European cops running around Blighty with guns. If we don't routinely arm our police, how can we justify allowing armed foriegn police to come in. Not sure about this one :?

Armed police officers from other European Union states would be able to chase criminals or terrorist suspects into Britain and detain them under plans being considered by the Government.

The Home Office is looking at adopting the hot pursuit provisions of an EU agreement which removed internal frontiers throughout much of mainland Europe.

At present, the Government allows foreign officers to operate independently on British soil under strict conditions.

They can carry out "emergency" surveillance for up to five hours before informing the local constabulary and must leave their weapons behind or at the port of entry. Border checks are also maintained.


But the Home Office has told the Commons committee which scrutinises EU laws that it is considering whether to relax these conditions to allow the armed hot pursuit of suspects.

The change of attitude has been brought about because of proposed alterations to the agreement set out in the Schengen treaty. These would allow hot pursuit not only across land borders, as at present, but also across sea and air.

Ministers believe that this could give Britain valuable scope to pursue criminals and terrorist suspects on the Continent.

If the Government signs, the agreement would give reciprocal powers to continental police forces to conduct similar pursuits in Britain.

A Home Office memorandum submitted to the MPs said: "The United Kingdom does not participate in the hot pursuit provisions in article 41 of the Schengen treaty.

"But taking into account that the [European] Commission's proposal would remove the provision that hot pursuit may only be across land borders, the possibility arises that the UK will need to revisit the question of its participation in article 41 in due course.

"The Government is keeping this matter closely in view."

Although the Schengen agreement makes clear that police on foreign soil should use firearms only in self-defence, the prospect of more armed officers on Britain's streets is likely to cause concern after the shooting in London last year of an innocent Brazilian, Jean Charles de Menezes, who was mistaken for a terrorist.

When the hot pursuit measures were agreed among other EU countries a few years ago, senior British officers made clear that they did not want foreign officers carrying firearms in the UK.

If the Home Office accepted article 41, the Government would probably seek to negotiate a deal ensuring that weapons were left at the port of entry as at present. The agreement, as it stands, explicitly allows arms to be carried.
telegraph
 
#2
The easy answer is to arm ours It will not be before time :!:
 
#3
Maybe we could start with a simple comparison between how many EU Police have whacked the wrong person as compared with British Forces?
 
#4
I wonder what will happen if they try and demand some one stop or they will shoot and they can't speak English. Just a silly idea I know but still it could easily happen
 

Legs

ADC
Book Reviewer
#5
I might be a little off track here, but aren't we an island? Even with the Chunnel it takes, what, 30 mins to get from France - how is that 'hot pursuit' (I can't help thinking of Sheriff Rosco P Coltrane at this point - 'we're in hot pursuit of the Duke Boys!). Surely in this time Monsuire(sp) Le Plod has got time to contact his HQ, which then contacts Dover Police who stops geezer when he gets off the train.

Also I thought that you had to be licenced in the UK to carry fire arms. Are we going to ignore that law so that the Frogs can carry arms over here when they're chasing someone for something? And what sort of crime are we talking about? Can they go in 'Hot Pursuit' of someone for not paying a parking fine?
 
#6
Hmmm, I have to go to immense trouble just so I can keep firearms to pot the odd four legged mammal and bipedal avian crittur. PC Jean Crapaud just needs an inter-rail pass...remind me again, what did I spend twenty years in the service of my country for? And I have to drag my bins down the drive so the poor little binmen don't get stressed...
 
#7
How does our police know if the armed "police officer" from Belgium really IS a police officer? What controls are in place to limit the success of criminals who decide to pretend to be a foreign police officer, ok may not work for most brits but we get foreign criminals groups here as well.
 
#8
Here is an incite. I live in The Netherlands and a while ago I was watching one of those cop TV shows that show the police chases from the onboard camera.

In this case the Dutch police were chasing a German registered Porche. When they reach the border the German car just blasts through (remember no border controls anymore). Do the Dutch stop at the border? No way. They went straight through it with blues and twos blairing.

The German is driving like a complete idiot at very high speed through small villages etc. Meanwhile the Dutch police have been in touch with the CGP to let them know what is going on. Eventually the GCP stop the Porche at a road block and the arrest driver.

Results: Based on the Dutch in car camera the Porche driver got two years in prison and banned for life (IRC). Meanwhile, when he gets out he has a 2,000 euro fine waiting for him from the Dutch.

So it is not all bad as an idea if used correctly as in the case above. Personally I have no problem if the Gardai chased someone the border into NI or the other way for PSNI. Remember if the police are chasing them they are the sort of scum that we would most probably want to be caught anyway.

However, the guns issue needs to be sorted if the French police etc were to run through the Tunnel.

What we do not want is a situaion where criminals can take advantage of the borders too easily.

This does not of ourse mean that I believe we should scrap our borders or even join the Schengen Agreement.
 
#9
Could this possibly be another step towards a European federal state without actually giving us,the citizens of this particular country,a chance to decide for ourselves ?
May i am far too cynical.......
 
#10
Why would a criminal pose as a Euro copper to shoot someone? Simple fact is if they're in such hot pursuit, they'll be behind him at the airport, train station or port. Maybe in landlocked European states where they might be in a car chase fair enough, but for us, it just doesn't fit in with reality. Picture the scene french plod just miss stopping the criminals lfight from taking off, well they could always have the plane return to the airport, have British Plod intercept criminal off the plane, OR with there new fangled powers, they could wait 2 hours and get the next plane to the same place to continue there 'hot pursuit'.
 
#12
Hmmm...Portuguese officers in particular will be unwilling to continue hot pursuit into the Met's free-fire zones!
 
#13
There are all sorts of possibilities here.

Imagine a Yardie being caught on the street with a heater. He holds up a phoney warrant-card Mulder and Scully stylee and says: "Hey man, me from de Dutch police. Me tryin' to bag dis bad modda!"

Who knows? The Old Bill might even give him a hand! :D :D :D

MsG
 
#14
(Stand fast the Republic/Northern Ireland interface) A slag doesn't exactly vault the barrier to get on ships, Eurostar or a plane with plod in hot pursuit. Tends to stand out a bit. Alarm raised, plane/ship/train stays put, incident escalates in situ. Bit different for sneaky beaky stuff but then it's easier to get the message to the opposite numbers at the destination ahead of arrival. Lukewarm pursuit I suppose.

However there are precedents of sorts. Do the US Secret Service dutifully turn over their weapons to the police or leave them behind when they step off Air Force 1 (sovereign US territory)? And El Al’s security.............?
 

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