EU Constitution - here we go again.

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Ord_Sgt, Mar 26, 2007.

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  1. Ord_Sgt

    Ord_Sgt RIP

    Why oh why do these moron politicians think they can keep pushing until they get an answer they like. There is no way in hell the UK will approve this - unless of course as Mandy is saying we wouldn't need to vote on it. Democracy my arrse.

    Oh the name will be dropped - well thats alright then :pissedoff:

    Edited to add this link.
  2. Another bit of spin from Mandy and others is that while 2 countries blocked it, another 20 passed it.

    As so often with Euro-spin, this is a specious argument - they all agreed beforehand that a unanimous vote counted. Otherwise they would all regard it as a 'non'.
  3. Alsacien

    Alsacien LE Moderator

    I looked through the constitution and failed to find anything seriously controversial in it. Pretty boring actually.
    The whole thing has just been badly presented, and should be dropped, but a lot of good ideas and work is contained therein, which should be re-used.

    However, the treaty of Rome in 1957 (which our current MO is based on) considered only 6 countries - now we have 27 and we need a new operating structure.

    It is not possible to consider 27 opinions on all issues.
  4. Rant On:

    What really gets my goat all of a quiver is that they continue to ask the same question.

    Surely the lack of a yes vote from two of the EU's FOUNDER members should have left this issue dead in the water?

    They simply will not let this lie, as there are politicians in that bloated talking shop who have wet dreams about a United States of Europe.

    At least the MEP's are voted for - it is the European Courts that really get my reels spinning. They have the ability to change my sovereign countries laws without ever having to face the public at voting time.

    Finally they have the cheek to cash in and stick their snouts in the trough whilst failing signally to balance the books / be open to fair or public account when caught dipping the purse once too often.

    The whole shooting match needs the Kibosh sharpish :frustrated:

    Rant off.

    Edited once due to spelling deficiency.
  5. Ord_Sgt

    Ord_Sgt RIP

    Problem is as a member of one of those 27 countries I want my opinion taken into account and not have crappy legislation foisted on me without my permission. A few countries can get together and force through their own agenda and other countries have to suck it up, CAP anyone.

    Problem is the pollies want to make a USE run by an unelected elite but this is not what a lot of us signed up for and they are trying to do it without our permission.

    It was supposed to be all about freedom of movement and trade but now they want to make new laws binding on all states without my input. They want to decide in Germany how much tax we pay. They want to decide on my freedoms - again Germany trying to ban the swastika all over Europe. Two words, fcuk off!!

    I'm actually pro Europe but this is taking things beyond what I want.
  6. Alsacien

    Alsacien LE Moderator

    So what do you suggest - all people of all 27 nations should vote on every single issue?
  7. Ord_Sgt

    Ord_Sgt RIP

    The current setup is a gravy train with no accountability which wants to increasingly run my life and I say no.

    The so called problem with the idea on all 27 nations having to vote is a red herring - if it simply gets on with regulating trade which is what it was formed for there is no need to vote on new legislation is there as its not there to regulate my life! No problem.
  8. Alsacien

    Alsacien LE Moderator

    The EU has the highest accountability of any public service environment in any country in Europe - you have not bothered to look, thats ok, but dont state things which are not true.

    Who says the EU exists solely to regulate trade? Again, you should do a bit of research yourself rather than rely on a Sun journo for reference.
    You will find that you, your elected MP, your elected national government and your elected MEP, have all been regulating to meet changes in the world around us.

    I dont think anyone is trying to do anything without the best intentions for the long term prosperity of European peoples, the problem is balancing 27 national opinions.
  9. I do believe that is exactly what he is saying.

    Didn't stop them when Ireland voted against EU expansion a few years ago. IIRC some unelected Euro politician publicly stated that Ireland's income from the EU would suffer if they didn't rerun the referendum and "deliver the right result". The referendum was rerun and, would you believe it, the outcome went from No to Yes.

    Anybody else think the EU getting just a little bit scary?
  10. Alsacien

    Alsacien LE Moderator

    Many people find the unknown scary AM.....
  11. Ord_Sgt

    Ord_Sgt RIP

    Sorry but that is complete and utter bollox. Their accounts have not been signed off for 11 odd years and who is accountable for that? There are unelected appointees generating legislation who are accountable to no one. What about the constant stories of corruption and noses in the trough. Accountability my arrse - you need to look the work up in a dictionary.

    Who asked me? It's my choice and this is exactly the problem you assume the EU has the right to legislate on my behalf - well it doesn't.

    Bollox again they are trying to do what is in their best interests.
  12. Alsacien

    Alsacien LE Moderator

    Point 1 = European Court of Auditors reports - check them, the details and the reasons.

    Point 2 = UK gov signed up to Maastrict and various other things, as your elected body, presumable they did this on your behalf? I may appear condescending, but only to the ill informed...

    Point 3 = Naive? Far from it, I have the work with the stuff daily.
  13. Alsacien,

    You are either stupid or deliberately lying.

    We all know MEPs have no real power. The real power in Europe is the UNELECTED and unnacountable (in European Law) European Council.

    Democracy my ARRSE.
  14. Ord_Sgt

    Ord_Sgt RIP

    Yeah because theres loads of money missing. Again where is the accountability?

    You are right Major did sign up to Maastricht but not on my behalf as he didn't ask me, which is exactly my point. Anyway my elected representative was then booted out. However the current charlatans are doing no different are they. And yes you are condescending, both to the informed and to those who disagree with you.

    Your problem is you predicate your arguments on the fact that the EU in some way has a right to legislate and administrate increasingly on my behalf. Well no it hasn’t and this is the problem it continues to encroach on my everyday life where it is not wanted. We spent 50 years working to bring down the socialist centrally run state in the USSR so why the hell would we want to rebuild Europe in its image is beyond me.
  15. Alsacien

    Alsacien LE Moderator

    I am neither.

    I find myself in the odd position of defending something I am normally very critical of as I have to work with it. Sceptism is good, ill informed ranting is tiresome.

    Power does not really exist in its full context anywhere. However you could say that the power to take a cheap flight, hire a car with a recognised license when you get there, retire in Spain and draw your pension, make cheap phone calls (soon mobile too), have cleaner air, have cleaner beaches, and, and, and... are all power in the hands of the people?