ETS LDI (?) Posts

#1
After talking with the ETS Officer at my local AEC I mentioned that comissioning into the ETS is an option I am considering. He told me about the LDI (he was unsure of the initials or details) where WO's are attached to AEC's with a look forward to comissioning into the ETS. Does anyone have any further info on this? I'm a WO with 7 years left and have a BSc.
 
#3
Devexwarrior, can you send me that info also via pm please, as I am also looking along the same lines as insttech. For some reason I am unable to pm anyone. thanks
 
#5
SOLDIER SERVICE WITH THE ETS
LEARNING AND DEVELOPMENT INSTRUCTORS (LDI) TRIAL

ISSUE

From early 2010 to mid 2012, HQ DETS(A) will be conducting a trial that offers the opportunity for up to six SNCOs to serve for a tour of duty with AGC (ETS). These trial appointments are referred to as Learning and Development Instructors (LDI). The trial is intended to validate the concept of the LDI and identify constraints and opportunities.

KEY MESSAGES:

• This is a trial only and there is no commitment to an ongoing scheme.

• Three Arms and Service Directorates (A&SD) (Infantry, RLC and REME) have been invited to identify volunteers to participate in the trial. There is no requirement for ETS personnel to take action to identify or recommend candidates. Soldiers who make enquiries should be referred to their parent MCM Div.

• During the trial, the volunteers will be posted as LDIs on an ETS PID. The LDI volunteers will remain on respective A&SD liability and will return to their respective posting plots after the tour with ETS.

• Whilst the LDI concept must undergo a trial, it has the potential to:

o Enhance the LDO capability and support to units.

o Provide mutually beneficial experience for those seeking an LE commission in the ETS.

o Provide role models whom learners will identify readily.


• It is anticipated that the trial LDIs will:

o Be based in selected Army Education Centres working with LDOs.

o Advise on Army Education Service functions, e.g. CLM, Basic Skills provision, languages and Army Learning Centres.

o Support the development of learners, e.g. learning programmes, personal and professional development plans and manage and assess learning.

o Support the delivery of learning (under supervision), e.g. supporting, coaching and teaching instructors.

o Manage their own professional development through collaborative learning, professional competence and evaluation of professional practice.

o Support Army Education Centre functions.

• LDIs are not intended as a replacement for LDOs and ETS LE commissioning opportunities will remain.

• During the trial tour, LDI volunteers will obtain a Post Graduate Certificate in Education (Post Compulsory Education and Training) (PGCE (PCET)) from Southampton University. Those without an Honours degree will gain a Certificate in Education (the professional licence to teach in the FE sector). Course fees will be paid by DETS(A) and residential elements of the programme are attended as duty.
 
#8
First three are on the Branch Training Course now, due to complete next month. Next three will be in AECs from Jul 10. If this trial goes well then might be more LDIs required.
 
#9
it looks to me like LDIs will be the death knell for ETS DE officers as well. What can an ETS young officer do that an LDI can't? They will get the same post-graduate training as a DE officer. Why not have a mixture of LDIs and civilian AEC managers. CLM is hardly run in AECs any more and all the other AEC functions (resettlement, basic skills, ALCs etc) are already done by civvies. What do the officers add? If someone says credibility exactely what credibility does an ETS 2Lt add to a CLM course of teeth arms Cpls with multiple HERRICK tours under their belt?
I'm not saying this is a bad thing, to be honest if the defence cuts that are planned target ETS rather than, say the infantry, would we really complain?
 
#10
outsider_1970 said:
it looks to me like LDIs will be the death knell for ETS DE officers as well. What can an ETS young officer do that an LDI can't? They will get the same post-graduate training as a DE officer. Why not have a mixture of LDIs and civilian AEC managers. CLM is hardly run in AECs any more and all the other AEC functions (resettlement, basic skills, ALCs etc) are already done by civvies. What do the officers add? If someone says credibility exactely what credibility does an ETS 2Lt add to a CLM course of teeth arms Cpls with multiple HERRICK tours under their belt?
I'm not saying this is a bad thing, to be honest if the defence cuts that are planned target ETS rather than, say the infantry, would we really complain?
Looking at your other posts you seem to have a bit of a "thing" about ETS. What happened-did you get rejected by them? What is clear is that you have very little knowledge of what the ETS does, both in and out of AECs - ans defore you kick off, I do not intend to get into a highest up the wall contest with you.
 
#12
I see LDIs as a welcome addition to the ETS, not a replacement for Commissioned Officers. In fact I think it is a long time coming.

However, Western, the ETS are not school teachers with a Commission. They are DE Officers who do the same course as everyone else. Forget the whole 'credibility' rubbish; if ETS Officers are to correctly help develop soldiers, surely they need to have a good idea of what these soldiers have to do? If an ETS officer is to make CLM more appropriate to the Army, the instructors need to have a good idea of what the Army is about. Being a DE and having LEs and LDIs does this.

But also remember two very important points.

1. The ETS delivers what it is asked to by the directorates. We deliver what the cap badges said they needed. If people thing CLM 08 is crap, then go and see Director Training and the other head of arm directors who asked for it.

2. The ETS is constantly fighing fires on behalf of the Army. So many soldiers are unprepared for promotion by having difficulties with numeracy and literacy and yet many units seem either reticient to resolve it or just don't care. What do you do when promotion time comes around the people are on back to back rotations? You go to the Educator, who cames with you, and ask what can be done. It's a minor role, admittedly, but surely it's a helpful one for British Soldiers? Surely we should be asking for the ETS to be doing more to help develop our soldiers, not sounding the death knell for them?
 
#13
I wasn't sounding the death knell for ETS per se, I am just struggling to see why you need a whole DE and LE officer structure to deliver what you have just described. If the LDI is trained (and I note they will be attending the same post-graduate course as the officers), then what can't they do that an officer can? Why have a whole career structure for officers, serving to 55, when you can get LDIs from other capbadges to do the job? In AECs it seems to me that most functions are performed by civilians, so where does the officer fit in? I appreciate the education support given to units on ops, but again can't see why the type of support given couldn't be provided by WO2 LDIs. I know some units (infantry i think) get an ETS LDO in barracks now, but those that don't seem to manage as well (or as badly!) education-wise as those who have one. The RA have self-funded an equivalent of an LDO for each of their regiments, and have recruited retired WO2s mainly to fill this role. It will be interesting to see how they perform compared to the ETS LDOs
 

B_AND_T

MIA
Book Reviewer
#14
outsider_1970 said:
it looks to me like LDIs will be the death knell for ETS DE officers as well. What can an ETS young officer do that an LDI can't? They will get the same post-graduate training as a DE officer. Why not have a mixture of LDIs and civilian AEC managers. CLM is hardly run in AECs any more and all the other AEC functions (resettlement, basic skills, ALCs etc) are already done by civvies. What do the officers add? If someone says credibility exactely what credibility does an ETS 2Lt add to a CLM course of teeth arms Cpls with multiple HERRICK tours under their belt?
I'm not saying this is a bad thing, to be honest if the defence cuts that are planned target ETS rather than, say the infantry, would we really complain?
Will the LDI's have special TRF's.

Outsider havn't you got other sites to go and play on?
 
#15
Will the LDI's have special TRF's.

Outsider havn't you got other sites to go and play on?[/quote]

You are not an ETS officer are you? I hope not, as if you are remedial work on the use of the apostrophe may be required!
 

B_AND_T

MIA
Book Reviewer
#16
outsider_1970 said:
Will the LDI's have special TRF's.

Outsider havn't you got other sites to go and play on?
You are not an ETS officer are you? I hope not, as if you are remedial work on the use of the apostrophe may be required![/quote]

Nope, but I am pleased to see you GCSE English revision is paying off.
 
#17
outsider_1970 said:
Will the LDI's have special TRF's.

Outsider havn't you got other sites to go and play on?
You are not an ETS officer are you? I hope not, as if you are remedial work on the use of the apostrophe may be required![/quote]

FFS let's not get boring now with grammar arguments. Always the sign of a weak argument when it comes down to apostrophes.

Your argument about a soldier only branch entertains me. Perhaps the Army as a whole could be ran by SNCOs? Perhaps you dislike Officers? Your comment about credibility earlier made me smile: How does a 2Lt in an AEC have credibility to a Cpl with multiple tours under his belt; what about the new 2Lts in the infantry, how do they gain credibility? By being professional, learning as they go and doing good by the soldiers who they take responsibility for.

I was once referred to by a RA WO as a "defence studies Ninja" when I was a 2Lt because I took the time to study hard and give the WOs a perspective of international affairs and defence studies they hadn't had before. Do you think WOs would appreciate being lectured on this subject by a fellow WO or even a SNCO? Probably not. Not because the LDI wouldn't know the material, we just don't like being lectured on subjects by someone 'junior' to us, rightly or wrongly.
 

B_AND_T

MIA
Book Reviewer
#18
Methinks someone got turned down for a commission in the ETS!
 
#19
You do make a couple of good points:

'what about the new 2Lts in the infantry, how do they gain credibility? By being professional, learning as they go and doing good by the soldiers who they take responsibility for' The point is, the infantry 2Lt has leadership responsibilities and as you say gains experience and credibility through their performance as a leader. I'm not sure of the circumstances in which an ETS officer would be required to exercise this type of leadership. Yes, you can gain credibility by being professional but again I go back to my original argument - what ETS tasks require a DE officer rather than a WO2 to perform them?

'I was once referred to by a RA WO as a "defence studies Ninja" when I was a 2Lt because I took the time to study hard and give the WOs a perspective of international affairs and defence studies they hadn't had before. Do you think WOs would appreciate being lectured on this subject by a fellow WO or even a SNCO? Probably not. Not because the LDI wouldn't know the material, we just don't like being lectured on subjects by someone 'junior' to us, rightly or wrongly.' I won't be uncharitable and suggest being described as a defence studies ninja icould be described as damning with faint praise, but in the army we often defer to those who are 'junior' - on the gun line, a helicopter loadmaster, adventure training - all examples of situations where you may have to take orders or advice from a 'lower' rank. I don't think many people have a problem with this, and so why would education be any different? I don't know your rank, and you don't know mine, would it make a difference to your argument with me if you did?
 

B_AND_T

MIA
Book Reviewer
#20
So why the downer on the ETS?
 

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