Escorts - a useful term? Why not say 'frigates and destroyers'?

[Gremlin]

Point of order. As any fool (journalist) knows, if it's painted grey, floats and has some sort of bang-stick, it's a battleship.

View attachment 440666

/wah

That's a boat.

 

[Civvy Scum]

/wah

That's a boat.

Boat-geek.

 

[FORMER_FYRDMAN]

Utter horseshit.

Ships that are given the correct maintenance/training/operation balance out perform the others*.

Given there is only one stag "escort" (ARGL, and even then she has female officers), I'd be interested in how your "mate" made that statistic up...

*Apart from ships/boats equipped with foxy Sub Lts and bags of chang.

 

[Gremlin]

*Apart from ships/boats equipped with foxy Sub Lts and bags of chang.

Are we on about the Auxiliary Columbian Navy now?

 

[Yokel]

I am still on my Christmas break from the CVF and Carrier Strike thread - trying to prove I do not have an obsession, however I did see this - perhaps someone else could post it there?


She starts contributing to operational capability this year. If it has not been done yet, the F-35Bs will be working with Fighter Controllers aboard Type 45 destroyers, and ASW will also be on the menu - working with Type 23 frigates and other NATO frigates - and submarines. To describe them as 'escorts' is a bit of an oversimplification.

 

[bob_the_bomb]

As a child, I always had a thing for the Mk2 RS2000...

Regards,
MM

Child? Sprog...

 

[bob_the_bomb]

Is 'Escorts' really the best collective term for 'Frigates and Destroyers'?
.

Escort McEscortface.

For all I (or apparently anyone else) cares...

 

[Mattb]

OK, just re-brand the Frigates as ASW destroyers and we're sorted.

 

[Yokel]

OK, just re-brand the Frigates as ASW destroyers and we're sorted.

In World War Two the reverse took place. Specialist ASW destroyers were renamed 'frigates' - a historical warship term.

Back to the present, and in the interests of showing that carriers are not the only high value units that need protecting from submarines and other threats:

Sutherland Goes On Arctic Submarine Hunt

The Type 23 Frigate is the lead anti-submarine warship on the Norwegian-led winter exercise, which involves 15,000 troops from ten nations, including 2,000 from the UK.

While Royal Marines raid inland via fast raiding craft and helicopters of Commando Helicopter Force, Devonport-based Sutherland is ready to pounce to protect the amphibious forces from subsurface attacks.

The ‘Fighting Clan’ remains on call to respond to events and incidents around the UK, but has headed to the high north for a demanding programme of air defence, gunnery and joint anti-submarine exercises.

Sutherland most recently worked alongside the Royal Norwegian Navy’s frigate HNoMS Thor Heyerdahl and completed a successful mission to locate and deter submarines in a Norwegian fjord.

Anti-submarine warfare in the freeze of the north poses many challenges in itself – the temperature of the sea (as well as salinity and various temperature layers) play a key role in how effective sonar is – making this essential training for the Cold Response hunters.

 

[Chef]

Escort McEscortface.

For all I (or apparently anyone else) cares...

Would it not be easier and more informative to describe them by relative size?

Very big boat.
Big boat.
Small boat.
Wee boat.

With sub divisions

Boat that is bigger than a Small boat but smaller than a Big boat etc.

Just a thought.

Mind you with the number of boats the RN has I'm surprised you need plurals I believe you have one each an escort, a frigate, a destroyer and some rigid raiders.

 

[northern-matelot]

Would it not be easier and more informative to describe them by relative size?

Very big boat.
Big boat.
Small boat.
Wee boat.

With sub divisions

Boat that is bigger than a Small boat but smaller than a Big boat etc.

Just a thought.

Mind you with the number of boats the RN has I'm surprised you need plurals I believe you have one each an escort, a frigate, a destroyer and some rigid raiders.

We have 11 boats currently. 4 SSBN and the other 7 SSNs.

Ohh you were talking about ships. Ok current fleet is at:
1 Ship of the line
2 Aircraft carriers (currently yet to become operational)
2 LPDs (alternatively rotated between operational and extended readiness)
6 destroyers (with 5 & 3/4 of those docked for fixing, from being broken since conception)
13 frigates (not sure how many are “training ships” or just not being used at all due to double crewing of others though.
7 OPVs with them now being forward based.
13 MCMVs
5 survey ships
16 P2000’s
And 1 static ship soon to be decommissioned.

Looking at numbers it looks like we still have a few, even if they’re not all big, working or have been to sea for centuries.


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[Ian525]

We have 11 boats currently. 4 SSBN and the other 7 SSNs.

Ohh you were talking about ships. Ok current fleet is at:
1 Ship of the line
2 Aircraft carriers (currently yet to become operational)
2 LPDs (alternatively rotated between operational and extended readiness)
6 destroyers (with 5 & 3/4 of those docked for fixing, from being broken since conception)
13 frigates (not sure how many are “training ships” or just not being used at all due to double crewing of others though.
7 OPVs with them now being forward based.
13 MCMVs
5 survey ships
16 P2000’s
And 1 static ship soon to be decommissioned.

Looking at numbers it looks like we still have a few, even if they’re not all big, working or have been to sea for centuries.


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What till they refloat HMS Victory, that'll show them we mean business.

 

[northern-matelot]

What till they refloat HMS Victory, that'll show them we mean business.

What do you think the “ship of the line” meant


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[instinct]

We have 11 boats currently. 4 SSBN and the other 7 SSNs.

Ohh you were talking about ships. Ok current fleet is at:
1 Ship of the line
2 Aircraft carriers (currently yet to become operational)
2 LPDs (alternatively rotated between operational and extended readiness)
6 destroyers (with 5 & 3/4 of those docked for fixing, from being broken since conception)
13 frigates (not sure how many are “training ships” or just not being used at all due to double crewing of others though.
7 OPVs with them now being forward based.
13 MCMVs
5 survey ships
16 P2000’s
And 1 static ship soon to be decommissioned.

Looking at numbers it looks like we still have a few, even if they’re not all big, working or have been to sea for centuries.


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You missed 13 ships you bloody white mafia bar steward!

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[Ian525]

What do you think the “ship of the line” meant


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Doh!

 

[northern-matelot]

You missed 13 ships you bloody white mafia bar steward!

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Really? Which ones?

And I’m deeply offended, you know I’m no bloody steward! No uppers for you when you next loose your tools!


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[mechanicalhorsetrough]

Or 'The bloody thing is broken down again'...

Or Dry Dock Warrior! On account of spending most of their time there!

 

[Yokel]

I don’t think that anyone is suggesting destroyers (DDGs), Frigates (FFGs) and other types of ‘escort’ (eg an SSN) cannot potentially operate and provide effect in isolation. However, a carrier cannot defend itself in isolation so it is an inevitability that some DDGs and FFGs WILL be ‘tied’ to the carrier.

So therein lies a key point: the RN - at best - has the minimum number of DDGs, FFGs and SSNs required to meet Defence Tasks (DT); in my view it actually has too few. Therefore, when one of the carrier’s deployed, a large proportion - and quite possibly the majority of available ’war-goers’ - will be tied to the carrier and will be restricted in what else they can do.

Therefore, perhaps the term ‘escort’ is appropriate. Ultimately however, who cares? Most fast jets are called ‘fighters’ and many AFVs are called ‘tanks.’ Indeed, the carrier itself could arguably referred to as an ‘escort’ when it’s contributing to ASW and AD with the ultimate aim of securing safe passage for friendly assets.

Regards,
MM

I was reading about escort carriers in the Arctic Convoys and thought of the last sentence. They operated fighters which if I remember correctly, were controlled by cruisers with good radar. They also operated Swordfish and similar aircraft against U boats, in conjunction with long range aircraft and ships with ASDIC and other systems.

They role was to provide defence for the convoy, or sometimes landing forces.