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Escorts - a useful term? Why not say 'frigates and destroyers'?

'Escorts - a useful term? Why not say 'frigates and destroyers'?'

"Brevity is the soul of wit", so why use 6 syllables when 2 will suffice.

And while we're there, what about DEs (Destroyer Escorts), or as the 1960s RAN River-class DEs were commonly referred to as, 'Deployable Expendables'.
 
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As a child, I always had a thing for the Mk2 RS2000...

Regards,
MM
 

Yokel

LE
The post of yours that I quoted was bitching about people making irrelevant, humorous comments, and bleating about having a mod smite those who were jesting.

Now you say some people have no sense of humour.

Well anyway, on with the escorts.


It was a joke!

I don’t think that anyone is suggesting destroyers (DDGs), Frigates (FFGs) and other types of ‘escort’ (eg an SSN) cannot potentially operate and provide effect in isolation. However, a carrier cannot defend itself in isolation so it is an inevitability that some DDGs and FFGs WILL be ‘tied’ to the carrier.

So therein lies a key point: the RN - at best - has the minimum number of DDGs, FFGs and SSNs required to meet Defence Tasks (DT); in my view it actually has too few. Therefore, when one of the carrier’s deployed, a large proportion - and quite possibly the majority of available ’war-goers’ - will be tied to the carrier and will be restricted in what else they can do.

Therefore, perhaps the term ‘escort’ is appropriate. Ultimately however, who cares? Most fast jets are called ‘fighters’ and many AFVs are called ‘tanks.’ Indeed, the carrier itself could arguably referred to as an ‘escort’ when it’s contributing to ASW and AD with the ultimate aim of securing safe passage for friendly assets.

Regards,
MM

Sometimes I wonder how I got that GCSE grade B for English! My point was that frigates and destroyers do a lot more than just defend the carrier. Indeed they contribute to the operation of the air group.

Your last sentence says it all. The carrier will sometimes be providing AD/ASW/etc for other high value assets, but using fighters or ASW helicopters effectively means working with destroyers and frigates.

'Escorts - a useful term? Why not say 'frigates and destroyers'?'

"Brevity is the soul of wit", so why use 6 syllables when 2 will suffice.

And while we're there, what about DEs (Destroyer Escorts), or as the 1960s RAN River-class DEs were commonly referred to as, 'Deployable Expendables'.

JSP 950 says something about using as many words as necessary to explain.
 
...My point was that frigates and destroyers do a lot more than just defend the carrier. Indeed they contribute to the operation of the air group...

Which - I would suggest - everyone with even a passing interest in Defence fully understands.

Regards,
MM
 
All well and good, but why post about it on an Army website (as opposed to a naval one), and then get uppity because you’ve failed to recognize that 99.99% of squaddies, ex-squaddies, crabs, ex-crabs and possibly some matelots and ex-matelots couldn’t give a rat’s arse whether a particular kind or kinds of ship are called escorts, frigates, destroyers or for that matter, Jennifer or Sally.

Smite the deserving indeed!

I don't think anyone really cares what they are called in that respect. The only thing worthy of note is - a day alongside is a day wasted.
 

Yokel

LE
Which - I would suggest - everyone with even a passing interest in Defence fully understands.

Regards,
MM

Max Hastings does not. Lewis Page does not. Some of the PPRuNe miscreants do not. Perhaps worst of all the makers of documentaries often claim things like the US Navy developed the F-14 to defend carriers - what about the 100 000 tons of supplies that would have to come across the Atlantic each day? The Atlantic Fleet had no less than eight carriers!
 
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Your last sentence says it all. The carrier will sometimes be providing AD/ASW/etc for other high value assets, but using fighters or ASW helicopters effectively means working with destroyers and frigates.

Do they do any Task Group ASW? Just asking for a friend, like................
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Fair one. Hopefully the next thread will be the best way to paint a frigate. Oh I hope so hope so hope so. Fingers crossed.......
If I wanted that I’d either read a ravers thread or look in the modeling forum
 
Someone was posting about the successful inclusion and cohesion of females into the fighting arm of the RN, and how forward thinking and progressive they all are.

Then this.

There are many words I'd use to describe the Submarine Service. "Progressive" and "Forward Thinking" would not be two of them.

I
 
ISTR someone telling me that bears defecate in wooded areas.

Utter horseshit.

Ships that are given the correct maintenance/training/operation balance out perform the others.

Given there is only one stag "escort" (ARGL, and even then she has female officers), I'd be interested in how your "mate" made that statistic up...
 
Utter horseshit.

Ships that are given the correct maintenance/training/operation balance out perform the others.

Given there is only one stag "escort" (ARGL, and even then she has female officers), I'd be interested in how your "mate" made that statistic up...

You're confused. Tired and emotional perhaps.

Someone else's 'mate' made the comparison.

The statistic about bears shitting in woods is the one I proffered.
 

Yokel

LE
There’s a fine line between interest and obsession.

Regards,
MM

Ambiguous terms lead to misunderstandings!

It is currently in my interests to demonstrate a professional interest in all things ASW and task group related, including how the carrier, Pingers, frigates with TA sonar, other frigates and destroyers and the SSN/SSK integrate - including land based assets such as MPA or even AWACS.

All the value (in life) comes from integration. Between ships, between ships and aircraft, between services, and between nations even - eg NATO Standing Maritime Groups.

Do they do any Task Group ASW? Just asking for a friend, like................

Sorry - I misread that as will they be doing, and the answer is yes! According to the Fleet Commander:

“Further task group deployments involving our aircraft carriers, amphibious platforms and support shipping; ships and submarines deploying worldwide to promote and protect our interests; Royal Marines embarking on the journey towards the Future Commando Force and new structures and roles for this iconic corps; alongside planning and training at pace for HMS Queen Elizabeth’s global deployment in 2021.

A busy year ahead for the carriers. Just because she os not going global until 2021 does not mean she is not contributing to national and NATO capabilities.
 
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And the remaining 70% are civvies who would call it a Boat anyway.
Point of order. As any fool (journalist) knows, if it's painted grey, floats and has some sort of bang-stick, it's a battleship.

1577820623796.png
 

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