Eric Joyce discovers his conscience

#1
MP Eric Joyce has come out against the government about the outragious antics of jobsworth MOD bureaucrats, or is he just another New Labour ratlike flunky jumping off the Titanic ? in hope saving some kind of future political career after the demise of Cyclops Broon
 
#2
This is the tw@ who just last week was saying it was very important for the gubmint to go ahead with the appeal.

2 faced money grabbing sleazy git.
 
#3
johnboyzzz said:
This is the tw@ who just last week was saying it was very important for the gubmint to go ahead with the appeal.

2 faced money grabbing sleazy git.
Yes,I know, just call me a sad Cynic
 
#4
tropper66 said:
johnboyzzz said:
This is the tw@ who just last week was saying it was very important for the gubmint to go ahead with the appeal.

2 faced money grabbing sleazy git.
Yes,I know, just call me a sad Cynic
If that's true,you can call me one too-agree totally. :x
 
#5
jboldie said:
tropper66 said:
johnboyzzz said:
This is the tw@ who just last week was saying it was very important for the gubmint to go ahead with the appeal.

2 faced money grabbing sleazy git.
Yes,I know, just call me a sad Cynic
If that's true,you can call me one too-agree totally. :x
Sorry, I can't do a link, but it's all over this morning's BBC
 
#6
End MoD payouts appeal, says aide

I debated this on BBC with Mr Joyce on the morning of the appeal, and while regretting the "awful timing" he was loyally putting the Government's side of the story.

I said the decision to pursue an appeal on that particular issue was "impossible to justify". I also called for the scheduled review of the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme to be brought forward (which the government then agreed), and for the review to be independent (the announcement only mentioned "consulting stakeholders").

As Eric Joyce is Bob Ainsworth's PPS, in normal times you would read this as a signal that the MoD is now prepared to accept, as part of the review, that complications resulting from the original injury can be taken into account in the lump sum element of compensation.
 
#7
hackle said:
As Eric Joyce is Bob Ainsworth's PPS ...
Why did that remind me of the sequence where Private Eye's "Agent Orange" took Dan Quayle out on a trip when GB (senior) had his health problems? It seems dangerously close to a position of power for Maj (sacked) Joyce.

Still, I suppose that as competence, commitment and character are simply unavailable in the PLP, "loyalty" (i.e. sustained arrse-licking) is what gets rewarded. I appreciate that I am being overly cynical, as usual, but the cretin is my MP.
 
#8
Weasel words... Tardy actions...This say it all to me that it is about saving there own seats and hands on the reins of power and nothing else

'Moral call' http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8180788.stm

Writing in Scotland on Sunday, Mr Joyce, parliamentary private secretary to Defence Secretary Bob Ainsworth, said that although technically the MoD had a good chance of success, the appeal should be dropped.

He said that in the context of heavy fighting in Afghanistan, victory for the government would "come against the backdrop of a giant neon sign spelling out the word 'Pyrrhic'".
He added that politicians should "recognise that while the public will give us a lot of rope at times, where we get the moral call profoundly wrong on a matter of how we treat our astonishingly brave service personnel, we'll find ourselves dangling at the end of it".


I do hope they drop the appeal not least for the money that appeal is no doubt being spaffed on the curtains, in a morally reprehensible act!
 
#11
Ministry of Defence appeal over compensation awards for wounded soldiers 'is bonkers' says Eric Joyce

A senior aide to the Defence Secretary has described the Government’s efforts to claw back compensation from wounded soldiers as “profoundly wrong” and “politically bonkers”.

Mr Ainsworth said the purpose of the current appeal process was to ensure that the scheme remains fair. Eric Joyce, a former Army major, said Bob Ainsworth was in danger of losing touch and added that if the Government won its case, it would represent “a victory for bureaucracy over bravery”.

He urged ministers to abandon the court action to cut payments to two injured servicemen and said he was willing to sacrifice his position to oppose it.

Mr Joyce, the Labour MP for Falkirk, acts as Parliamentary Private Secretary (PPS) to Mr Ainsworth, who announced last week that he would bring forward a review of compensation for members of the Armed Forces.

However, the Ministry of Defence has not dropped its appeal against sums awarded to Cpl Anthony Duncan and Marine Matthew McWilliams after the two suffered complications from their injuries.

The Government is awaiting the judges’ ruling in October, which will form part of its reassessment of the soldiers’ compensation.

The Daily Telegraph has begun the Justice for Wounded campaign to seek better care for Servicemen injured while serving their country, particularly those suffering from mental health problems.

Mr Joyce, usually a Government loyalist, said his deep unease over the situation had left him unable to keep silent. He said the MoD’s case was technically strong and had a good chance of success, with Cpl Duncan having returned to active service in Afghanistan.

But he said: “A victory for the MoD in October at the Court of Appeal would represent a victory for bureaucracy over bravery. The appeal should be dropped.”

Cpl Duncan, of The Light Dragoons, was shot in the leg by a high-velocity round in Iraq in 2005. He won an increase in compensation from £9,250 to £46,000 after complications from surgery.

Marine McWilliams broke a leg on a training exercise, and his payment was increased from £8,250 to £28,750.

Mr Joyce, a former Black Watch soldier, challenged the Government not to remove “a penny” from the sums awarded to the servicemen.

He said the public gives politicians “a lot of rope” and warned: “Where we get the moral call profoundly wrong on a matter of how we treat our astonishingly brave service personnel, we’ll find ourselves dangling at the end of it.”

A source close to the MP said he did not intend to resign as the Defence Secretary’s PPS.

A special adviser to Mr Ainsworth refused to say whether Mr Joyce would be dismissed over his remarks. He said: “The key thing is we will have a review.”

Mr Ainsworth said: “The purpose of the current appeal process was to ensure that our Armed Forces Compensation Scheme remains fair.”



Link
 
#12
Good for him for at last speaking out.
Should have doneit a lot earliar on a lot more subjects but fair play to him for standing up now.

And I fervently hope he is proven right on the rope comment.
 
#13
Nope. No way. He's being used to signal the official U-turn. No conscience whatsoever in that man.
 
#14
Im with 'Idrach' on this they have realised they have made another stunningly bad decision that doesn't sit well with much of the country...

I truly hope they do withdraw the appeal but i have no doubt it is for any other reason than to serve labour hope to not be voted out.
 
#15
It may show you that there are depths than even such as he will not sink to.

But Idrach makes a very valid point.
 
#16
Idrach said:
Nope. No way. He's being used to signal the official U-turn.
Well I'm watching *spit* Rammell on Ch 4 News now and he's not making any noises to indicate that might be the case. In fact he is jostling his way to front of the gallows.
 
#17
Have watched news all morning and still no reason given for ex Major Joyce growing a pair or getting the sack yet
 
#18
If he don't get sacked today, then he is just doing what he's told, and if so,is another wonking New Labout flunky
 
#19
hackle said:
End MoD payouts appeal, says aide

I debated this on BBC with Mr Joyce on the morning of the appeal, and while regretting the "awful timing" he was loyally putting the Government's side of the story.

I said the decision to pursue an appeal on that particular issue was "impossible to justify". I also called for the scheduled review of the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme to be brought forward (which the government then agreed), and for the review to be independent (the announcement only mentioned "consulting stakeholders").

As Eric Joyce is Bob Ainsworth's PPS, in normal times you would read this as a signal that the MoD is now prepared to accept, as part of the review, that complications resulting from the original injury can be taken into account in the lump sum element of compensation.
Now I know I am going to get some flak for this but IMO, it is possible to justify and I think understandable for the MOD to try and appeal the payments.

First, the MOD doesn't have a duty to compensate soldiers who have been wounded unless it can be shown that the MOD has somehow been at fault. These payments are therefore ex-gratia payments. The MOD are doing it not because it has to do it.

So, the MOD pays out to people who have been injured even though the injuries haven't been caused by the MoD. The bloke then goes to hospital and suffers complications. The MOD clearly has no hand in that. Why should it therefore be responsible for other people's actions? If the complications have arisen as a result of NHS negligence, then the soldiers can pursue a claim with the NHS. If that cannot be done, then I think, one has to accept complications are part of the pitfalls one faces in life. No matter, the correct defendant is the NHS, not the MOD.

The only mistake the MOD has made in this sorry saga, is a political one. I personally feel that morally and legally, the MOD is in the clear here.

PS: I know that someone will trot out the tired case of the RAF typist getting around 500k compensation for a wrist injury. I think that case is besides the point simply because in that case, it was shown that the injuries were sustained due to the MODs actions. If these 2 soldiers can show that in their individual cases, I think the payout will be much greater.
 
#20
EdwardCoke said:
hackle said:
End MoD payouts appeal, says aide

I debated this on BBC with Mr Joyce on the morning of the appeal, and while regretting the "awful timing" he was loyally putting the Government's side of the story.

I said the decision to pursue an appeal on that particular issue was "impossible to justify". I also called for the scheduled review of the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme to be brought forward (which the government then agreed), and for the review to be independent (the announcement only mentioned "consulting stakeholders").

As Eric Joyce is Bob Ainsworth's PPS, in normal times you would read this as a signal that the MoD is now prepared to accept, as part of the review, that complications resulting from the original injury can be taken into account in the lump sum element of compensation.
Now I know I am going to get some flak for this but IMO, it is possible to justify and I think understandable for the MOD to try and appeal the payments.

First, the MOD doesn't have a duty to compensate soldiers who have been wounded unless it can be shown that the MOD has somehow been at fault. These payments are therefore ex-gratia payments. The MOD are doing it not because it has to do it.

So, the MOD pays out to people who have been injured. The bloke then goes to hospital and then suffers complications. The MOD clearly has no hand in that. Why should it therefore be responsible for other people's actions? If the complications have arisen as a result of the NHS negligence, then the soldiers can pursue a claim with the NHS. If that cannot be done, then I think, one have to accept the complications as part of the pitfalls one faces in life. No matter, the correct defendant is the NHS, not the MOD.

The only mistake the MOD has made in this sorry saga, is a political one. I personally feel that morally and legally, the MOD is in the clear here.
I sort of agree with you, but if you read my first post it is not about the compensation but about another New Labour traitor/lying barsteward/ spin merchant? or whatever
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top