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Equipment versus training

theoriginalphantom

MIA
Book Reviewer
After I had done the casualty simulation course I really wanted to make exercises and injuries as realistic as I could, but I just couldn’t get any support. If I wanted gash clothing to dress casualties up in the Q would always rip them up before handing them over, so a casualty in a landy supposedly unconscious with carbon monoxide poisoning or a head wound would have rips in his trousers and top! Bloody stupid.

I did manage to source bones from a butcher though, and those were far better than the previous bits of wood others had used to simulate an open fracture. When I used to see that I’d have to say ‘Ooh, you’ve got one hell of a splinter in you’ :)

Raw animal products were banned for cas sim (at least by the army) quite a while ago. Pity as some pig skin, and a few bits of intestine (or if you are cheaper, some raw sausages) make a great open abdo.
And so on.
 

Yokel

LE
We used amputees in action for a training serial once. We hadn't briefed the training audience (but they knew casualties were to be expected).

The first pair of first aiders came around the corner, saw the bloke with a missing leg and (lamb's) blood pissing out of the end of his thigh and both promptly fainted.
]
We had to pause the exercise for a while...

When I did the level II first aid course at the first aid training unit at HMS Raleigh there was an abundance of fake blood. As I remember it did not smell. I also recall one of the instructors (an MA) expressing dismay at first aiders passing out, as most of them were chefs.

Does any fake blood exist with a realistic smell? What do paramedics etc train with?
 

Slime

LE
Raw animal products were banned for cas sim (at least by the army) quite a while ago. Pity as some pig skin, and a few bits of intestine (or if you are cheaper, some raw sausages) make a great open abdo.
And so on.

Good point. I would always clean and bleach the bones before use.

On the sausage front, I think if I saw that I’d have needed to remove the offending ‘intestines’ to subject them to a high heat test and inspection away from the casualty.
 

nsstab

Clanker
You could dish out all the shiny new kit in the world that offered amazing improvements and units still wouldn't use it because it wasn't what the RSM did 20 years ago when they trained in that subject.
 
You could dish out all the shiny new kit in the world that offered amazing improvements and units still wouldn't use it because it wasn't what the RSM did 20 years ago when they trained in that subject.

More likely that they would not have anyone trained and qualified to use the new shiny kit.

Case in point - Laser Target Marker, which sat in its box, in a store for 5 years as no-one had the 1st clue about it, let alone have the 1st clue how to actually deploy it.
 
Ive always said that any infantry training should be instructed by the actual infantry rather than the support arms reading instructions out of a big book.
I remember a lad from my platoon re badging to RAOC as a Military Training Instructor. Does that not happen in the RLC?
 
I remember a lad from my platoon re badging to RAOC as a Military Training Instructor. Does that not happen in the RLC?

If I remember correctly MTI was a trade not a capbadge, but they dont have them anymore.
 

ABNredleg

War Hero
Does the British Army have a large scale training area with a permanent OPFOR such as our Joint Training Readiness Center (for light forces) or the National Training Center (heavy forces)? I did two rotations at JRTC and it was in many ways harder than our deployment to Iraq. Incredibly realistic training.
 

chimera

LE
Moderator
Does the British Army have a large scale training area with a permanent OPFOR such as our Joint Training Readiness Center (for light forces) or the National Training Center (heavy forces)? I did two rotations at JRTC and it was in many ways harder than our deployment to Iraq. Incredibly realistic training.

This is about as close as we get:

 
Some of the best med training I have ever done was with a civilian run (but mainly ex first responder/military) company on the edge of the Ft Bragg training area.

They had remote control amputee dummies rigged with blood pumps, pulse points etc. Dressed in uniform, cas sim blood everywhere and a decent waft of smoke into the room and it stopped some highly experienced blokes in their tracks. Do it right, bleeding stops. Do it wrong, claret continues to go everywhere.

I have never seen them in the UK. Do we have anything similar?
I recall a typically home grown British effort at Lulworth c 1983.

A handful of us Troopers were voluntold that we were to be casualties for a Troop Leaders course who were undergoing classroom training that day, just to buck them up a bit.

A couple of medics pitched up who had done some stage make up course and by the time they'd finished with plasticine, fake blood, etc we looked like the remnants of some zombie film.

We dutifully take up our best dying poses-apart from the shocked wandering off guy -and a thunderflash was set off.*

Cue a bunch of baby Ruperts led by their instructors come piling in and the expected mayhem kicks off, with mandatory swearing of " Fu*k off you cnut that hurts".

For all of 30 seconds.

* In true British fashion, the thickest man on camp aka the SSM had been told about this exercise and had promptly forgotten about it. On hearing the bang, he'd taken one look and pressed the big red DO NOT TOUCH button which set off every fire alarm in camp.

The look on his face seeing some very relieved young Ruperts being guided to their fire drill point by a clutch of the walking dead was priceless.
 
Does the British Army have a large scale training area with a permanent OPFOR such as our Joint Training Readiness Center (for light forces) or the National Training Center (heavy forces)? I did two rotations at JRTC and it was in many ways harder than our deployment to Iraq. Incredibly realistic training.
A company at Demo Battalion was designated as OPFOR, certainly when my lot was there early to mid nineties. They wore desert uniforms and used 432's instead of Warrior. The OC had an exercise script, but was allowed a certain amount of improvisation.
 

theoriginalphantom

MIA
Book Reviewer
To demonstrate the Kit vs Training ..

Back when I joined the army the chain of evacuation for a casualty..

The Point of Wounding (PoW) self and buddy aid with your two first field dressings and maybe a triangular bandage or two - an absorbent pad that just soaks up your blood and the rain. It doesn't matter how well you are trained it isn't use, it's not terribly effective.
Morphine from an auto injector - it can go wrong - the dose level in these original ones was high enough (SWIDT?) that a single use was sufficient to cause addiction apparently.
Communication - not at individual soldier level

evacuation was via improvised carry or a stretcher based on a 1930s design - heavy and unwieldy even without a casualty on it.
now take a look at the modern way;

PoW - self aid/buddy aid with the new dressings that prevent blood leaking out - tourniquets, smaller dose morphine.
Team medic - basic airway management including suction, triage, novel haemostatic agents. Many carrying lightweight stretchers that fit in a pouch
Communication - 9 liners/ k9 liner and PRR
Helicopter evacuation from PoW being more common these days

this extra kit does require extra training (and of course refresher training), but the combination makes things so much better
 

Slime

LE
To demonstrate the Kit vs Training ..

Back when I joined the army the chain of evacuation for a casualty..

The Point of Wounding (PoW) self and buddy aid with your two first field dressings and maybe a triangular bandage or two - an absorbent pad that just soaks up your blood and the rain. It doesn't matter how well you are trained it isn't use, it's not terribly effective.
Morphine from an auto injector - it can go wrong - the dose level in these original ones was high enough (SWIDT?) that a single use was sufficient to cause addiction apparently.
Communication - not at individual soldier level

evacuation was via improvised carry or a stretcher based on a 1930s design - heavy and unwieldy even without a casualty on it.
now take a look at the modern way;

PoW - self aid/buddy aid with the new dressings that prevent blood leaking out - tourniquets, smaller dose morphine.
Team medic - basic airway management including suction, triage, novel haemostatic agents. Many carrying lightweight stretchers that fit in a pouch
Communication - 9 liners/ k9 liner and PRR
Helicopter evacuation from PoW being more common these days

this extra kit does require extra training (and of course refresher training), but the combination makes things so much better

Looking back at how things were, it highlights how the ‘hi tech’ use of the FFD wrapper pressed against a sucking wound was seen as an added extra :)

Looking back to the mid to late eighties (I can’t remember exactly when) my overall memory of first air training and the aid to save course (supposedly with lessons learned from the Falklands conflict) was the army’s need to give first aid items or procedures silly army specific names instead of regular names.

While terms like mouth to mouth would have been understood, or even mouth to nose as an extra specific term it seems the army really needed a TLA so it was Exhaled Air Resuscitation :)

And, plasters, sticky plasters or adhesive plasters had to be strip island dressings.
 

theoriginalphantom

MIA
Book Reviewer
Looking back at how things were, it highlights how the ‘hi tech’ use of the FFD wrapper pressed against a sucking wound was seen as an added extra :)

Looking back to the mid to late eighties (I can’t remember exactly when) my overall memory of first air training and the aid to save course (supposedly with lessons learned from the Falklands conflict) was the army’s need to give first aid items or procedures silly army specific names instead of regular names.

While terms like mouth to mouth would have been understood, or even mouth to nose as an extra specific term it seems the army really needed a TLA so it was Exhaled Air Resuscitation :)

And, plasters, sticky plasters or adhesive plasters had to be strip island dressings.


EAR and ECC (exhaled air resuscitation and External Cardiac Compressions) were not Army/MoD specific terms.
some civi organisations took longer to bring the terms in.
People still talk about Heimlich manoeuvre, however due to a legal battle by his family it's now abdominal thrusts.
 
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