Enrorced religion on Ops

#1
Can anyone explain to me why I am forced to attend a religious service once a month just because I am on tour?

I am not religious, I don't believe in God and I do strongly believe that organised religion is the source of most of the worlds problems.

Weekly church services are held here for those people who do want to attend, so why are the people who don't want to attent forced into listening to some random women (she's not my padre) spouting off her beliefs, I wouldn't legally be allowed to force my beliefs on people so why does the army think it can force its idea of god on me.

I signed up for Queen & country there is no mention of God on my enlistment papers and I have passed up my chain that I find it offensive ad don't want to attend (as have many other people) but we are all still herded into it.

Why?
 
#2
organised religion is the source of most of the worlds problems???
ermmmmmmmmmm................no

i have no idea why we're forced, but we are. Just cope with it, listen to her, you might learn something :)
 
#3
loubella said:
Weekly church services are held here for those people who do want to attend, so why are the people who don't want to attent forced into listening to some random women (she's not my padre) spouting off her beliefs, I wouldn't legally be allowed to force my beliefs on people so why does the army think it can force its idea of god on me.
Is this woman actually a Padre?
 
#4
Have you actually tried asking your CofC if it's OK for you not to attend. It will probably result in you having to do something far more "interesting" but if your convictions are strong enough then this shouldn't be a problem. I too am anti religion but as a young lad (many years ago) I quickly learned that attending was generally the lesser of two evils, nothing to do with principals, just common sense. Now I'm old and no-one ever shouts at me I just don't bother going in the first place.
 
#5
loubella said:
I signed up for Queen & country there is no mention of God on my enlistment papers and I have passed up my chain that I find it offensive ad don't want to attend (as have many other people) but we are all still herded into it.
Apart from the first line where you swear by almighty God?

Did you register as being Atheist when you joined up?
 
#6
Simple. Speak to the Padre and advise her that you're an atheist. Request that she includes your faith (or lack of) as part of her Service.

You'll probably find that she will excuse you from attending.

The downside is that the Service is classed as a Parade, so you shouldn't be allowed to just skive off. You may find yourself doing GD and wishing that you'd attended the Service.
 

Legs

ADC
Book Reviewer
#7
Apart from all of the above, can't you view this Church Parade as a rest from all the other Operational work that you may (or may not be) involved in? Sit back and relax. No-one is forcing you to listen. Sit in quiet contemplation, draft (mentally) your next letter to Mum and Dad, plan then next few days activities. or as I said - just chill out a bit...
 
#8
When you sighned up you agreed to carry out all leagl orders set to you by Officers and NCOs if they order you to go to church parade then you are obliged to go so stop whinging.
 
#9
jimmys_best_mate said:
Apart from the first line where you swear by almighty God?
Not necessarily:

I SWEAR BY ALMIGHTY GOD THAT I WILL BE FAITHFUL AND BEAR TRUE ALLEGIANCE TO HER MAJESTY QUEEN ELIZABETH II, HER HEIRS AND SUCCESSORS AND THAT I WILL AS IN DUTY BOUND HONESTLY AND FAITHFULLY DEFEND HER MAJESTY, HER HEIRS AND SUCCESSORS IN PERSON, CROWN AND DIGNITY AGAINST ALL ENEMIES AND WILL OBSERVE AND OBEY ALL ORDERS OF HER MAJESTY, HER HEIRS AND SUCCESSORS AND OF THE GENERALS AND OFFICERS SET OVER ME"

Note: (Those who do not believe in God "SOLEMNLY, SINCERELY AND TRULY DECLARE AND AFFIRM")
This is one thing that bugged me about being in the Army. Church parades were no big hardship; but I could have found damn sight better things to do than listen to some superstitious clown drivel on about nothing-in-particular.

Rant ends

.
 
#10
loubella said:
Can anyone explain to me why I am forced to attend a religious service once a month just because I am on tour?
We always held a service in the field on ops at Sqn/Tp level. If the Padre was not available the senior officer/NCO took it. Not possible here to explain the benefits but the point was it got everybody together, regardless of belief, and particularly the whingers. If you need that explained to you in terms of Regtl spirit then I`m willing to bet you are remf.
 
#11
Take a book along and read it.

msr
 
#12
Legs said:
Apart from all of the above, can't you view this Church Parade as a rest from all the other Operational work that you may (or may not be) involved in? Sit back and relax. No-one is forcing you to listen. Sit in quiet contemplation, draft (mentally) your next letter to Mum and Dad, plan then next few days activities. or as I said - just chill out a bit...
Agree, quit gurning and just go. You could see it as a team building exercise.
To paraphrase the hymn by Alfred Lord Tennyson with music by Hubert Parry...."let there be no moaning at the bar"
http://ingeb.org/songs/sunsetan.html
 
#13
It's got nothing to do with team-building exercises, regimental spirit or demonstrating a willingness to follow orders. This is the 21st century and if you don't want to go to a regular religious service because you are not a follower of that religion then you shouldn't have to. I wouldn't expect anyone to have to troop to synagogue with me on a saturday morning and, by the same token, I don't expect to have to go to a Christian church. I realise that the vast majority of personnel in the army are (nominally) Christian and so don't make any kind of song-and-dance about having the right to kosher rations etc or doing anything else that would cause extra work or annoyance to the rest of my regiment. However, I think it's fair enough that I and other non-Christians shouldn't have to attend church.

The one exception to this is, of course, Rememberance Sunday. As it is not a religious commemoration per se and as it is a day that most definitely does involve the building of regimental spirit and solidarity, attendance is a duty. Excuse me if I don't say the same about Easter or Christmas.
 
#14
wedge35 said:
The one exception to this is, of course, Remembrance Sunday. As it is not a religious commemoration per se and as it is a day that most definitely does involve the building of regimental spirit and solidarity, attendance is a duty.
Agreed (should've added that bit myself).

.
 
#15
I sympathise with our new friend Loubella. I think there's a difference between not really caring about religion and actually not believing in it.

When I was a wee lad I went to Sunday school and was told about the son of god and his loaves and fishes etc. I knew no different and accepted it as fact because after all, no one has ever stood up in church and said all this is just an opinion. In my teens I was nominally C of E, as most people are in the mainland UK, and only saw the inside of a church when my grandparents shuffled off this mortal coil and then again when my sister got her claws into her first husband. It was only later when I was actually mature enough to think about it that I realised that I didn't actually believe any of it.

If you feel like me and Loubella it is not possible to just sit there through a service or whatever and whistle quietly to oneself while the padre does his thing. I tried recently to attend my nephew's christening in a local church and I literally had to slip out quietly halfway through because I felt so uncomfortable. (I was lucky in that I was holding my baby son at the time, so I could point to his nappy and roll my eyes to anyone that looked round). To me, if an adult wants to look at the world's religions and choose one that fits, fine; but to start with a baby of just a few months old smacks of indoctrination. My uncle feels the same way and we sat together in his car throughout the service talking about the myth, as we see it, of religion.

Dangling a few inches behind my laptop as I type this are my old ID tags bearing the word 'ATH', so officially in the army my lack of faith was never in doubt. I think that if you had made that statement upon enlisting it was respected and I was usually left quietly alone for the duration of any services that took place. I think the problem arises when someone who has never mentioned their lack of belief suddenly decides that church is boring and they don't want to play anymore. The bottom line is that if one feels that strongly about it, it would have come up at enlistment.
 
#16
The reason why we all have to Parade for a church service whilst on an operational tour is quite simple. There are many hardships felt by many members of a Regt and some experiences are quite "out of the norm". A parade brings everyone together to feel a sense of belonging and to reflect on past experiences. I am a Pagan and object very strongly to organised service and the idea of "the big man upstairs" and the amount of deaths which have been contributed to religeon. I have not forgotten that I am there to support the other members of my Regt and I go for that reason! Some people are too inward looking and maybe you are not facing as many hardships as others to understand the importance!!!!!!!!
 
#17
teehee said:
organised religion is the source of most of the worlds problems???
ermmmmmmmmmm................no

i have no idea why we're forced, but we are. Just cope with it, listen to her, you might learn something :)
errrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmmmm...............yes. If you take the historical view and believe what those that start the trouble say are their reasons for doing so ie "the big beard in the sky told me too" then organised religion has a lot to answer for.
 
#18
Odd though innit, you never here of any satanists causing any trouble?
'Come on lads Lucifer is backing us on this one we cant loose.'
 
#19
Bayonets-and-laurels said:
The reason why we all have to Parade for a church service whilst on an operational tour is quite simple. There are many hardships felt by many members of a Regt and some experiences are quite "out of the norm". A parade brings everyone together to feel a sense of belonging and to reflect on past experiences. I am a Pagan and object very strongly to organised service and the idea of "the big man upstairs" and the amount of deaths which have been contributed to religeon. I have not forgotten that I am there to support the other members of my Regt and I go for that reason! Some people are too inward looking and maybe you are not facing as many hardships as others to understand the importance!!!!!!!!
Indeed, I agree, it does not have to be any specific religion which is promoted, but rather a shared opportunity for a sense of reflection and support. It is this sense of belonging which has been shown to help recovery from post traumatic stress symptoms, and where the military are well ahead of civilians who suffer traumatic events.
 
#20
But surely there is a way in this day and age to get people from a sub-unit together without making it a religious occasion? I have as much regimental pride as the next man and have absolutely no desire to make myself some kind of martyr or rebel. I would hazard a guess that the same goes for Loubella and AWOL.

And anyway, how exactly would forcing me (as a Jew) to attend a Christian service ensure that I support my comrades better? I would suggest that it is far more likely to make someone think 'balls to this, I'm going to get a job with bosses who actually live in the real world'. Just a thought.
 

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