Enlistment of Minors

#2
If military service were compulsory in the UK there might be grounds for objecting, but as it is, no-one has to join. To compare the British Army allowing teenagers to join with, say, the Lord's Resistance Army forcing kids of primary school age to brass up anything that moves is a bit daft.

But it'd be interesting to hear from those who did join at 16 -- would you do it again?
 
#4
Is it time for this policy to be reviewed?

I have read in this article as current practices are at odds with the rest of NATO and the EU:
UK sole NATO member state still recruiting 'child soldiers': British MPs unconcerned | NATOWatch

And in this article that the practice is costing a lot of money:

MoD 'wastes millions' on under-18s who drop out | UK news | The Guardian

What do you think?
Who are you, exactly? You've been fishing for a couple of days now about various things. Come clean and you might actually get some co-operation. Continue with the trolling and you'll get called a shifty ****.
 
#5
KabulCivy. You're a shifty ****. See, he was right.
I have been called much worst I can assure you!

I am not a journalist; I work for INGOs and am home at the moment for a bit of a rest and am doing a bit of lecturing in International Development to keep the beer fridge supplied.

A student raised the issue of potential hypocrisy in the UK's stance to child soldiers and I was unsure how to respond as I was not aware the we still recruited minors until I did a bit of googling.

If anybody finds the question challenging please forget I asked but I thought that I might get a "coal face" view from this forum.
 
#6
You may find the following facts a bit challenging:

Not everyone on here is a serving soldier. Some of us are service veterans. There are also people interested in the army.

And then we come to people like yourself - too lazy to do any real work, they come on here looking for information. They quote "contributors to a military website" in their work without asking the people they're quoting for permission. They come with a pre-formed opinion in their mind and look for quotes to reinforce that view. If they don't find the quotes they act as an agent provocateur and badger people into saying what they want to hear. You aren't the first person to do it (even BBC journo's aren't above it) and you won't be the last, but please at least be up front about it. You stick out like a sore thumb.
 
#8
If military service were compulsory in the UK there might be grounds for objecting, but as it is, no-one has to join. To compare the British Army allowing teenagers to join with, say, the Lord's Resistance Army forcing kids of primary school age to brass up anything that moves is a bit daft.

But it'd be interesting to hear from those who did join at 16 -- would you do it again?
Yes in a heart beat.
 
#9
If military service were compulsory in the UK there might be grounds for objecting, but as it is, no-one has to join. To compare the British Army allowing teenagers to join with, say, the Lord's Resistance Army forcing kids of primary school age to brass up anything that moves is a bit daft.

But it'd be interesting to hear from those who did join at 16 -- would you do it again?
Absofuckinglutely, best thing my old man got me to do.
 
#12
If military service were compulsory in the UK there might be grounds for objecting, but as it is, no-one has to join. To compare the British Army allowing teenagers to join with, say, the Lord's Resistance Army forcing kids of primary school age to brass up anything that moves is a bit daft.

But it'd be interesting to hear from those who did join at 16 -- would you do it again?
I joined 12/01/71 I was 15. Yes I would join again but not Infantry.
 

Forastero

LE
Moderator
#13
Tropper, you are a five star moron at times. Do yourself (and everybody else) a favour and go and find something else to do instead of crayoning over threads. It's like dealing with a ****ing five year old sometimes.
 
#14
The history of the JLR RAC

JLR RAC History
he first boy soldiers to be posted to Bovington began training in January 1920. They were all under fifteen on enlistment and were considered to be of sufficiently high academic standard to be able to pass the Army Certificate of Education (ACE) 2 during their first year of service. There were initially 40 of them, but their number soon grew to 200. They had been recruited to make up for the lack of qualified mechanics volunteering for the Tank Corps. Their training therefore concentrated on the technical aspects of their trade. Nevertheless, a considerable portion of their time was devoted to elementary theoretical work, physical training, drill and organised games. This scheme came to an end in 1924 with the opening of the Army Apprentices’ Schools.

The next boy soldiers to arrive in Bovington did so when the Boys’ Squadron, RAC, commanded by a Major, was formed in 1952. Initially there were 44 Junior Soldiers but their number soon increased to 200. Age entry was set at 15 years and the boys were trained to take their place as crewmen in the regiments of the Royal Armoured Corps. The educational content of their course was aimed at the passing of those examinations which would give them exemption from adult soldiers’ examinations, viz:

a. Junior Certificate – exemption from ACE 3 – necessary for promotion to Corporal
b. Intermediate Certificate – exemption from ACE 2 – necessary for promotion to Sergeant
c. Senior Certificate – exemption from ACE 1 – necessary for promotion to Warrant Officer

The unit was obviously successful in this aim because in 1956, for instance, the last year of the unit’s existence as a squadron, 86 of the 94 boys passing out obtained the Intermediate Certificate or higher qualification.

The Junior Leaders’ Regiment RAC developed from the Boys’ Squadron. This development took place gradually from August 1956 with a steady increase in numbers and the formation of a second squadron - ‘B’ Squadron, in December 1956. When the Regiment formally came into existence in January 1957 it was commanded by a Major but during 1958 the appointment was upgraded to Lieutenant Colonel.

Prior to the evolution of the Boys’ Squadron to Regimental status, the highest rank a boy could achieve was Boy Squadron Sergeant Major. In 1957 Boy Soldiers were renamed Junior Leaders, Boy NCOs became Junior NCOs and in September 1958 J/SSM M Burgess was promoted to become the first ever Junior Regimental Sergeant Major.

During 1958 the strength of the Regiment rose to 450, (including 100 Junior Bandsmen) and a third squadron - ‘C’ Squadron was formed in May 1958. Initially ‘C’ Squadron’s role was one of running short courses for the new intakes. On 3 May 1958, it received an intake of 72 new boys, this being a record in the history of the Regiment. As the Regiment continued to grow, by 1959 ‘C’ Squadron began to carry out normal Squadron duties and activities.

The role of the Regiment was – "to produce and train the future warrant officers and sergeants of the Royal Armoured Corps". On the educational side, emphasis continued to be on ‘Education for Promotion’ but the Education Wing was also responsible for providing evening training for every boy. Hobbies ranged from meteorology to motor maintenance. Furthermore, many Junior Leaders attended Outward Bound courses. Indeed the training aim of the Regiment (to quote the Regimental magazine of Summer 1958) became:

"…….to mould and develop the character of the boy so that he leaves the Regiment a trained leader, qualified in a crewman trade, holding at least a second education certificate, and having been trained at the Army Outward Bound School".

This continued to be the aim of the Junior Leaders’ training for many years. There were of course occasional changes in the training organisation. In 1959, for instance, a separate Pass Off Troop was formed with the object of bridging the gap between the ordered pattern of life of a Junior Leader and the comparative freedom of a trained soldier. In 1963 the organisation was changed again. Each intake was divided into two squadrons in one of which a new boy spent four 14 week terms doing General Military Studies and Education before joining a combined squadron to do a term each in gunnery, radio and driving. He then spent his final term preparing for Pass Off. In this same year it was decided that in future, the best ten Junior Soldiers in Pass Off Troop should be selected for a parachute course and a further ten would be tested for suitability for pilot training. In 1969 the squadron organisation completed its full circle. It was decided to abolish Pass Off Troop and the Trade Training Squadron. Henceforth there would be three parallel squadrons and a boy would remain with one squadron throughout his time at the Junior Leaders’ Regiment.

1963 was also the year in which the changeover in Education Wing staff was completed. This had begun in 1961 with the decision to fill henceforth all Royal Army Education Corps (RAEC) posts with either commissioned officers or civilian lecturers. In 1961 six officers and one civilian lecturer took up their appointments. By the end of 1963 all warrant officers and non-commissioned officers had departed and the Education Wing staff consisted of 11 RAEC officers and 11 civilian lecturers.

By 1965 a vast new building programme had been in progress for the past ten years. Two brick built barrack blocks had been completed and occupied in 1958 and during that time training wings and barrack rooms had been moving from one wooden hut to another as circumstances demanded. A brand new Education Wing was completed and with a permanent home, could look forward to improving standards in more suitable surroundings. In 1961 it had been decided to cease entering candidates for the Junior Test and to concentrate on passing the Intermediate Test so that the brighter boys could tackle the Senior Test all the more quickly. In 1969, to take one year as an example, 99% boys gained a full Intermediate Certificate and 29% a full Senior. Furthermore, a number of boys who had completed their Senior – the number varied between six and twenty – continued their studies in preparation for GCE ‘O’level.

On 1st April 1970 The Mayor, Aldermen and Burgesses of the Borough of Wareham bestowed upon the Regiment the Honorary Freedom of the Borough of Wareham in appreciation of the long association between the Regiment and the Borough and in recognition of the highly important role of the Regiment in support of the Armed Forces of the Crown and conferred upon the Regiment the right and distinction to march through the streets of the Borough on all ceremonial occasions with bayonets fixed and drums beating. The Regiment exercised this Freedom regularly up until its final Freedom of Wareham Parade when it marched through the Town for the last time on 13th September 1992.

In 1971, to commemorate fifty years of boys’ training at Bovington, HRH The Princess Anne visited the Regiment as Inspecting Officer of the Spring Pass Off Parade. In the same year the system of Army Certificates of Education and their Junior Army equivalents came to an end. The Army Certificate of Education was replaced by the Education for Promotion Certificate (EPC) which was primarily for soldiers already within the promotion bracket and was therefore unsuitable for Junior Soldiers. Consequently the aim of education in the Regiment had to be changed from Education for Promotion to Education in Support of Training and Service in the Army. Furthermore, the Raising of the School Leaving Age (ROSLA) in 1972 meant that henceforth the boys would not be able to enlist until they were at least 16 and consequently future courses would only be four terms (15 months) duration. Nevertheless it was decided to give all Junior Leaders a basic military training, coupled with education and character building training, and still to qualify them in one, and if possible two Chieftain tank turret trades as well as teaching them to drive.

The Post ROSLA course started in January 1974. To signify the enormous change that was taking place, the name of the Education Wing was changed to that of Military Studies Wing. The approach to education became “functional”, with the emphasis being place on education in support of training and the full development of the potential of the individual. Other changes in the training programmes which coincided with the introduction of the four-term course were: the reduced percentage of time spent on academic studies: the introduction of clerical studies for some RAC personnel; the introduction of phase 2 radio course for Royal Military Police (RMP) Junior Leaders, who had been admitted to Bovington since 1973, and for Army Air Corps (AAC) Junior Leaders, who had been admitted to Bovington since 1974; and, the introduction of Scorpion gunnery training. All gunnery training was henceforth to be completed during the fourth term.

In 1977 a fundamental change in the aims of the Regiment took place. Up until that point, the aims of the Regiment were always very similar. In 1974 its aim was “to give Junior Leaders of the Household Cavalry, the Royal Armoured Corps, the Army Air Corps and the Royal Military Police the character and leadership training, which combined with educational and military training, will fit them in due course to reach the rank of sergeant or warrant officer”. By 1977 however the aim had changed radically. The emphasis was no longer on potential leadership but on operational efficiency as a crewman – “to produce by employment training and education, a soldier able to take his place in an operational regiment . . . . and in so doing, to develop quick reaction, self reliance and alertness and to promote character and leadership early in his adult service.” This was refined in 1983, so that the aim of the Regiment became – “to train a soldier to take his place in an operational troop with his leadership potential developed as far as possible”.

Meanwhile the aim of the Military Studies Wing was changed to allow the re-introduction of examinations. In 1980, in order to provide junior soldiers with a greater sense of motivation towards their studies, the Junior Army Education Certificate was introduced into all Young Entry units. Furthermore, it was decided that those young soldiers who did particularly well in that examination in two subjects – Military Calculations and Army in the Contemporary World, would be allowed to sit for those two particular subjects in the adult Education for Promotion Certificate examination. Consequently, Military Studies was then concerned not only with supporting training and developing an individual’s potential but also with providing Junior Leaders with the opportunity to qualify in part for the adult soldier’s promotion certificate.

Since the humble beginnings in 1952, the Regiment went from strength to strength and was highly thought of in Military circles. In 1985 young apprentices of the Royal Army Pay Corps joined the Regiment to undergo their basic training. In the same year the Regimental Band was disbanded, following the establishment of the Army Junior School of Music (AJSM), which trained Junior Bandsmen for the Royal Armoured Corps and the whole of the Infantry. Although a separate entity in its own right, the AJSM was considered to be very much a part of the unit and the Junior Bandsmen were trained and educated in much the same way as the Junior Leaders’ Regimental Band once did. Sadly the existence of the AJSM was short-lived because it was closed in September 1991, as part of the rationalisation of the Army’s training base. In January 1992 The Royal Corps of Transport and Royal Army Ordnance Corps Juniors were admitted for training.

The success of the Junior Leaders' Regiment was legendary. At one time, every Regimental Sergeant Major in the Royal Armoured Corps was an ex Junior Leader. At its height in the late 1980s, the Junior Leaders' Regiment had over 1,000 boys in training.

By the summer of 1993, on the Regiment’s closure, it was established to train 460 Junior Leaders. It provided a one year course for Junior Leaders going to the Household Cavalry, Royal Armoured Corps, the Army Air Corps, the Adjutant General Corps (Provost), the Adjutant General Corps (SPS) and the Royal Logistics Corps, before reporting to their respective Regimental and Corps depots for specialist training. Throughout the course, emphasis continued to be placed upon the qualities and skills of leadership.
 
#16
AFAIK, the minimum age under international law for recruitment into the armed forces is 15, which puts the UK on the right side of the line. Perhaps someone out there can dig up something more restrictive, but the most restrictive international instrument I came across was the "Convention on the Rights of the Child," which states as follows:

Article 38
[...]
2. States Parties shall take all feasible measures to ensure that persons who have not attained the age of fifteen years do not take a direct part in hostilities.
3. States Parties shall refrain from recruiting any person who has not attained the age of fifteen years into their armed forces. In recruiting among those persons who have attained the age of fifteen years but who have not attained the age of eighteen years, States Parties shall endeavour to give priority to those who are oldest.

(Convention on the Rights of the Child)
 

Schaden

LE
Book Reviewer
#18
i think you have seriously underestimated your audience - you do realise that there are a lot of people here who would not only volunteer but pay for the opportunity to go and shoot at people again and be shot at again. i got my first rifle for convoy duty when I was 15 and look how I turned out *twitch*
 
#19
I joined at 16 during the 80'sand spent a rather wonderful 12 years in the army. Nobody made me do it, I volunteered and was free to go at many points during my training and career. The army offers those who have been failed by the various education and social systems in the UK to better themselves to a far higher degree than the OP and their ilk would ever be able to do without resorting to weasly phrases such as 'It is unfortunate many cannot find jobs' or 'it is regrettable school leavers are unable to read/write'. The army did all of those things for me, and many tens (hundreds?) of thousands of others.
The OP should also take into account that UK soldiers are not deployed on operation until they are adults.
This isn't your mis-informed blog is it? Shameful Secret Of Child Soldiers In UK | MyBloggityBlog

'Many of you are probably scratching your head at the thought of a Western power employing children to fight its wars but the UK is one of twenty nations who still use children. I myself, an avid supporter of the enlistment age of 18, was appalled by the fact that the UK is letting kids as young as 16 join the armed forces as well as front line units like the infantry. While these “soldiers” are not seeing combat until the age of 18 the problem is they’re being jailed for abandoning service. It’s literally costing the UK millions of dollars to train soldiers who simply are too young for service and wind up quitting.

According to the British Army’s recruitment page the age required for enlistment into the regular army is a ripe 16 years old (with parental consent). Even more frightening than that is the 16 year old doesn’t have to be some sort of super warrior. There are literally no minimum requirements for service; not even a diploma. North Korea and Iran utilize the same policy and that makes sense but the United Kingdom?'

Mis-infomed and incorrect as soooo many levels.
 
#20
Britain is not the only NATO country that recruits under 18 year olds, in Canada the minimum age is 17, or 16 for those who will attend RMC. Most of those who went through basic with me, were in the 19-21 year range as I recall.