England Rugby going down, down, down.....

Discussion in 'Sports, Adventure Training and Events' started by in_the_cheapseats, Mar 2, 2009.

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  1. in_the_cheapseats

    in_the_cheapseats LE Moderator

    Now, I may be a Scot but I have to admit (the shame, the shame :wink: )that once upon a time I enjoyed watching England play rugby. As long as it wasn't against us, of course....

    As England's ranking continues to plummet, I accept times change but I have been amazed at just how poor England has been over the last couple of years. Oh and this season just how thuggish. I know it hasn't really been commented on in the press other than the Butler/Moore spat but watching some of the cynical targeting of O'Driscoll hacked me off.

    England's style of rugby has played reflects, quite accurately, the style of rugby that Johnston used to play himself - uncompromising, thuggish at best and generally without finesse. However, as it was then, rather than just him and maybe a couple of others playing in this style, it is now the whole team. 10 yellows in four matches, anyone? Can't just be the ref, can it?

    My question to the masses is a simple one - how long before England get rid of the thug and get a decent coach?

    PS Just how many English players do we think will make it into the Lions tour this year? I can't see many on merit. Joe Worsley is one definite for the squad but others? If you can count them on more than one hand in the squad, I'll be amazed.
  2. Think you have to give Johnston more time. The squad needs time to gel and the boss certainly isn't happy with them yet. After last years disaster they need to start again, and he has done so with younger men and an eye to the future. At the moment they are playing less than adventurous stuff as they need to find a style and continuity, thuggish no, uncompromising yes.
    If after a decent interval he has achieved nothing better then I will agree with you. Woodward was criticized greatly in his first couple of years but walked off with the Webb Ellis Mug, give Johnno time. At least he has started getting them to play as a team.

    Lions? Fewer than I would like.
  3. in_the_cheapseats

    in_the_cheapseats LE Moderator

    I don't see why you should give him any more time. The manner of play describes a philosophy that Woodward (of whom, I am no great fan) would abhor. He used players to their best ability - it is not a trait I see in any of the selections of Johnston.

    However, if you wish, please leave him in charge for another couple of seasons. I am a Scot after all and the more advantage we have the better. :D An unqualified coach with no coaching experience is just (obviously.... :roll: ) what England need.

    How many experienced (successful) football managers are there in the premier league from the ranks of previous players are there? With the caveat of doing it with no previous experience of coaching???

    Not many , I think. Actually, to save pepole the effort of looking over the last 20 years, I think the count is zero.

    Why there should be any different experience in the world of rugby, I don't know.
  4. At least they are in "transit" when it comes to play style.
    Discipline is a must, and he needs to work on it.

    Wales however have no answer to allblacks/french high ball.

    He will be working towards the world cup.

    6 nations is only "lets see who is new and can play" platform.

    Regardless of what people think, a team dont get to 2 consecutive world cups without something special. And managers.
  5. Delon Armitage ought to go with the Lions - I've been bigging him up for four years or so, since I saw him cut Bath to shreds...

    As for which England players go to SA...I cannot exactly put up my hand and point to clear Scottish candidates. Chunk had played himself into contention, at least for the dirt-trackers, so that is sad. however stand fast Murray, who else? Paterson just defies selection - okay he is quick and kicks like a dream...but where do you play him and what is the opportunity cost if you do?

    Evans Bros. too young, Blair out of form, Cusiter? Maybe...the rest of the squad really don't look candidates - not even Barclay.
  6. in_the_cheapseats

    in_the_cheapseats LE Moderator

    You are quite right that they were special teams. But Johnston had a part in this how? And how many players from either final are in the team now? Very few.

    I am amazed to hear you say that the Six Nations is but a practise competition. I doubt that many England fans watching you get cuffed game after game agree with you.

    Stop dreaming about the past and actually think about the problem you have now.
  7. in_the_cheapseats

    in_the_cheapseats LE Moderator

    Cuddles - I agree. I watched Murray destroy Northampton a couple of weeks ago and his performance against the Italians was more than a little impressive as well. He'll go. Other than that, well, I don't disagree that the cupboard is pretty bare.

    However this thread is about England. Answers on a postcard to my original post please.
  8. You need to see the bigger picture, win as many 6 nations as you like, then get walloped in the quarter finals, never making it within sniffing distance of the big gold trophy. There's no point peaking in between major competitions. Yeah, we're getting our arses handed to us right now - but so what?? It's worth it to get a decent team in place for 2011.
  9. I thought that it was the worst England performance for many years; I had high expectations having watched an excellent game on Friday evening. The Welch being beaten is always a bonus, but you have to give credit to the French game.

    I was rather hoping that England had been watching this game closely, all the basics were there; good strong defence up early and hard, good running in the attack and support for the 2nd and 3rd phase.

    Our lack of discipline is unacceptable and those who are guilty should be deselected, I thought Mr Johnson looked utterly bewildered.

    My opinion (for what is its worth), get a grip of the team or move over and let someone else have a go, extremely disappointing.

  10. Townsend has how much coaching experience?

    You have to hand it to Hadden, he'll try and copy anything he can't get his head round.
  11. I certainly think Ross Ford has to be in with a shout at No 2.

    Is this going to turn into some England fans saying "we don't care about 6N anyway", I'm pretty sure you would care if your team was winnng.

    The talkof time for Johnston and letting the team gel is all well and good, but the cynical play we have seen, and the amount of yellows leaves for no excuses on that front.
  12. He is only the figurehead and manager with a very good team of coaches under him to do the actual coaching. Persoanlly I would like to see him there for the next few years as they area team under transition and to keep getting rid of the management/coaches would do nothing but harm to them, and of course would help us retain the CC :)

    The bigger problem England has and will have is that within the current league setup, the key players in key positons are from other countries and so therefore the clubs are not bringing anyone through in these areas. Until the PL and RFU get together and sort that out then I think they will have massive problems in the future.
  13. Its good to know that it dosent matter if England are playing good or bad, the home nation always see us as the team to beat. For the Scots, its forget how we are playing, lets look at England. We are always the team to beat. It takes time to build a team as Clive found out.
  14. in_the_cheapseats

    in_the_cheapseats LE Moderator

    No we just like beating you :D As to teams to aspire to, those have been Ireland and latterly Wales, not England.
  15. I think for the home nations, England are always the team to aspire to beat, look at some of the forums and discussion sites prior to the 6 Nations, its always England this and England that.

    Ive decided, based on current performance, to adopt a Scottish attitude to all this: We are cr*p, we know we are cr*p so I wont expect to win anything but it was nice turning up - - - - - - -- but if we win more than 1 game, thats it, the world cup is in our hands :D