England & Ireland

Discussion in 'Military History and Militaria' started by jonwilly, Nov 16, 2009.

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  1. Gents I have looked up on Google tiring to find just when England started to be Involved in the Affairs of what is now the Irish Republic.
    The best I can come up with is

    "From 1169, Ireland was entered by Cambro-Norman warlords, including Richard de Clare, 2nd Earl of Pembroke (Strongbow),[59] on an invitation from the then King of Leinster. In 1171, King Henry II of England came to Ireland, using the 1155 Bull Laudabiliter issued to him by then Pope Adrian IV, to claim sovereignty over the island, and forced the Cambro-Norman warlords and some of the Gaelic Irish kings to accept him as their overlord. From the 13th century, English law began to be introduced. By the late 13th century the Norman-Irish had established the feudal system throughout most of lowland Ireland. Their settlement was characterised by the establishment of baronies, manors, towns and large land-owning monastic communities, and the county system. The towns of Dublin, Cork, Wexford, Waterford, Limerick, Galway, New Ross, Kilkenny, Carlingford, Drogheda, Sligo, Athenry, Arklow, Buttevant, Carlow, Carrick-on-Suir, Cashel, Clonmel, Dundalk, Enniscorthy, Kildare, Kinsale, Mullingar, Naas, Navan, Nenagh, Thurles, Wicklow, Trim and Youghal were all under Norman-Irish control."

    I know the Romans knew of Ireland, but do not seemed to have invaded.
    The Vikings are said to have settle large parts 'Establishing' the Larger cities.
    I am sure that somewhere I read that post Roman times Irish Pirates attacked the land, in search of booty, that has since become England.
    Was There no English involvement in Ireland prior to the Norman times ?

  2. Just stop that, it'll only end in tears :roll:
  3. Some "pirates" (a raiding party?) from what is now Antrim or Down slipped over to what was to become Cumbria, kidnapped a young lad from a middle-class Roman family, and took him back to tend their sheep.
    Patricus - we call him Patrick - eventually returned to his homeland and attempted to make it just a little more civilised.
    Finding this somewhat of a lost cause he went back to Hibernia ( the Roman name for the place) where he was more appreciated, making a name for himself in the process.
    He was probably the only Roman to get a solid footing in "Ireland" - all other (Roman) expeditions came, saw, and hurried off back to Britannia. They found that the wild men of the British north were pussy-cats compared with the natives of the north-eastern Hibernian coastline!
    I remember the night Patrick was taken. His father, a local civil servant, was giving a party for some officers of the garrison at Birdoswald (on the Wall just west of the town of Vindolanda). Our legion was returning to Rome to help defend it from the rapidly advancing east European hordes and Patrick's father hoped to curry some favours if things became worse. Next we knew we were assailed by these rough men speaking some unholy language. They were in and out again before we could get properly organised, our weapons and equipment were completely inadequate, and despite chasing them all the way back to the Hibernian Sea we failed to apprehend them. Next day we discovered poor Patricous was missing.
    We learnt later that this scoin of a wealthy politician was actually tending sheep on a mountain in Hibernia.
  4. raiding and trading and settlement happened both ways and always did, 1169 is the generally agreed proper "titled" involvement on record, but thats not saying much as we tended to rely completely on oral tradition (like a chav today)

    kind of hard to establish for anything relating to "england" as a nation before 927 either way anyway. same with ireland, it wasnt really unified arguably until the 16th C

    what exactly is the point of your research?
  5. your lads came over- stayed for a while,

    we killed some of your lot- you killed some of our lot,

    your lot went home-

    then your lot came back again for stag and hen parties

    that my friend is a potted Anglo Irish history.
  6. This thread will still end in tears. Too much blood has been needlessly spent.
  7. Gents we all know about the recent Troubles what I am trying to understand is how all the business started.
    I quite agree too much blood has been spent.
    I have said before on this board I pray that there will be no more deaths in Ireland.
    Pope Adrian IV in 1155 seems to be the starting point.
    My Fathers side of the family was mainly of Irish extraction.
  8. It started the way all other rows start.

    Some greedy bugger decides he will have some other poor hardworking man's land, or house, or gold, or wife.
    They weren't always subtle enough to achieve this by taxation or non-violent negotiation so went in a little heavy-handed. The target, be he Scots, Welsh, Irish, English, or Fuzzy-Wuzzy, quite naturally retaliated - and so it went on.
    See any modern parallels here, down the street, in the next town, over the Channel, further afield; no one has to look very far?
    P.S. Religion was often an excuse in the past; what is our excuse today?
  9. It's been going on before England was England and Ireland was Ireland.

    Basically English security was dependant on her neighbours not being in alliance with Englands enemies. An independant Ireland in cahoots with the French/Spanish/Germans would have been a huge threat.

    Catholicism/Protestantism made the situation worse as the local prods wanted to keep the catholics down (Limerick treaty et al) and the catholic church incited and encouraged nationalism as a means to increase it's own power.
  10. It's only been 800 years or so. You'd have thought the boggies would have had time to stop whinging about it by now.
  11. Buy a book.
    Jonathan Bardons A history of ulster and work your way south after that.
  12. the past is the past,

    I am really glad its all in the past.

    I think both our nations and both religions should learn to be more forgiving of each other and

    not dwell on unumportant things that happened in the past.

    we should spend our energy on more valuable and needy emotions

    like hating the French
  13. The thing that always make me smile was that it was Pope Adrian IV that gave Henry II the authority to bring "the unruly Irish Church under the control of Rome"