England. A crime-ridden, rough and dangerous place?

#1
According to U.K. Home Office figures released in 2003,
Britain had more people in prison as a percentage of its
population than any other country in the European Union. There
were 139 people incarcerated for every 100,000 people in England
and Wales, compared with 85 in France and 96 in Germany. (The
U.S. locks up 686 out of every 100,000 people -- maybe that's why
crime is under control.) The U.K. may have tougher judges, but it
probably also has more criminals.
This month, a survey of 7,000 people painted the U.K. as a
disorderly, uncouth country. According to the Jill Dando
Institute of Crime Science at University College London, 83
percent of Britons saw anti-social behavior as growing.
The rest of the region has started to notice, too. When
Europeans were asked about the issue, 76 percent of respondents
in countries such as France, Germany and Italy said Britain had
such a problem. The U.K. was the highest on their list of anti-
social trouble spots.
``This research is a wake-up call,'' Gloria Laycock, a
professor at the Jill Dando Institute, said in a statement on the
survey. ``We know anti-social behavior is a major issue in the
U.K. and the rest of Europe clearly agrees.''

Matthew Lynn -Bloomberg News
So is the UK a disorderly, uncouth country that all civilised peoples would do well to avoid or is it just a case of high spirits
and "Kampf drinking" as the Germans call it is just letting off steam in the evenings.
 
#2
Where I live, in under fourteen miles you can go from sleepy village to crime ridden hell-hole.

The UK (and England, since they're not synonymous) is many things all at once depending upon where you are.
 
#3
Crime has been falling over the last few years (overall, and most types - but not all) and the prison population has doubled.

Call me a simpleton but could there possibly be a link?
 
#4
Steven said:
According to U.K. Home Office figures released in 2003,
Britain had more people in prison as a percentage of its
population than any other country in the European Union. There
were 139 people incarcerated for every 100,000 people in England
and Wales, compared with 85 in France and 96 in Germany. (The
U.S. locks up 686 out of every 100,000 people -- maybe that's why
crime is under control.) The U.K. may have tougher judges, but it
probably also has more criminals.
This month, a survey of 7,000 people painted the U.K. as a
disorderly, uncouth country. According to the Jill Dando
Institute of Crime Science at University College London, 83
percent of Britons saw anti-social behavior as growing.
The rest of the region has started to notice, too. When
Europeans were asked about the issue, 76 percent of respondents
in countries such as France, Germany and Italy said Britain had
such a problem. The U.K. was the highest on their list of anti-
social trouble spots.
``This research is a wake-up call,'' Gloria Laycock, a
professor at the Jill Dando Institute, said in a statement on the
survey. ``We know anti-social behavior is a major issue in the
U.K. and the rest of Europe clearly agrees.''

Matthew Lynn -Bloomberg News
So is the UK a disorderly, uncouth country that all civilised peoples would do well to avoid or is it just a case of high spirits
and "Kampf drinking" as the Germans call it is just letting off steam in the evenings.
I think this is a media panic issue. After the bulger incident, all the spineless weasels commonly known as 'politicians' started jumping on the crime and disorder bandwagon. Of course, we know who came out on top. New Labour managed to wrest the crime and disorder issue from the Conservatives and in the run up to 1997, New labour exhausted the entire lexicon of get tough rethoric to appear 'tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime' (first used by Tony Blair in 1994-ish on a radio show).

After coming into power, new labour kept up the rhetoric by publishing no less than 6 consultation papers on youth crime and anti-social behaviour in less than one year. They also passed the Crime and Disorder Act (which is where ASBOs came from) in record time! Till today, hardly a year passes by without the government introducing some new policy or measure to tackle 'antisocial behaviour'. With so much publicity and emphasis on Antisocial behaviour, it is no wonder that people are afraid! The politics of fear anyone?

Add to this the fact that ASBO are not being used as intended (eg. on the mentally ill! etc) and therfore constantly dominate the headlines, and you have a situation where there is so much fear and concern about Anti-social behaviour at a time when crime is largely speaking, falling and has continued to fall for almost a decade.
 
#5
Its because crime detection is up and there are more things considered a crime (mainly all this youth stuff), its New Labour, not because the UK is more dangerous. Besides, main land western Europe is a very safe place (in general) so hard to beat.
 
#6
Do the figures on crime represent all types of crime, or just "recorded crime"? I vaugely remember that certain types of crime no longer show in the statistics, therefore showing a reduction in crime.

Statistics can be made to show whatever you want, if you ask the right questions.
 
#7
There are 2 major statistics out there. That on recorded crime and the British Crime Survey. The former measures only recorded crime and there were changes to the way crimes were recorded around 1998(?). The British Crime Survey basically asks people if they have been subjected to crimes in the last year. I prefer the BCS since the large majority of crimes remain unreported. Largely speaking, however, the two statistics seem to match.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#8
Er....(donning Nomex coverall)....the Metropolitan Police Traffic Unit is coming under fire at the moment because of a report based on CCTV footage which...um...( Helmet G6 chin strap done up)....which seems to indicate that about half the car-crime in London is committed by...um ....young black voters between 16 and 35 years of age......Veg , any truth in this scandalously un PC allegation ?

Source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2179561,00.html

Cameras set racial poser on car crime
Dipesh Gadher, Transport Correspondent

BRITAIN’S most senior policeman Sir Ian Blair is facing a race relations dilemma after the release of figures that reveal almost half the number of people arrested in relation to car crime in London are black. Blair, the Metropolitan police commissioner, has signed off a report by his force’s traffic unit which shows that black people account for 46% of all arrests generated by new automatic numberplate recognition (ANPR) cameras.

The technology allows car registration plates to be scanned and automatically run through databases to determine whether a vehicle is stolen, uninsured or has not had its road tax paid.

Each numberplate is also checked with the police national computer, where vehicles suspected of links to crimes such as robberies are flagged up.

The Met has deployed six mobile ANPR camera units in the capital, primarily in areas with high levels of street crime. When a suspect vehicle is identified, police officers are sent to intercept the driver.

Although ANPR technology is impartial, the disproportionate number of blacks being arrested has prompted the Met to investigate.

The arrests have been broken down by ethnicity in a report sent last month to the Metropolitan Police Authority (MPA), to which the force is accountable.

It reveals that between April 2005 and January this year the units generated 2,023 arrests. Of these 923 were black suspects, while 738 (36%) came from white backgrounds. Asians accounted for just over 9% of arrests.

...Okay officers, I'll come quietly...the Ministry of Thought-Crime did you say?....no, I have no idea whose black shirt that is...... :?
 
#9
Agree that statistics can manipulted to support almost anything but it's hard not to trust your eyes and ears.

Lucky_Jim said:
Where I live, in under fourteen miles you can go from sleepy village to crime ridden hell-hole.

The UK (and England, since they're not synonymous) is many things all at once depending upon where you are.
Nail on the head. I'm sure the Home Counties are peachy but in Birmingham low/medium level intimidation and violence, especially from 15-21 year olds is getting pretty bad in most areas. A good mate of mine is a teacher at a fairly typical State Secondary School and when he questioned his class of fourteen year olds on what jobs they were interested in doing, no less than seven lads replied drug dealer..like my dad/brother etc. They weren't gobbing off for their mates, just 'honest'.

The attacks by pupils on staff has got so bad - a teachers car petrol bombed and burnt out during school, teacher car-jacked at gun point at school, numerous (including sexual) assaults on staff etc. - that they built a cell and now have a copper stagging on permanently. Go five miles down the road and the schools are from a different planet. Blame poor areas, higher crime, less opportunities, not really understanding or relating to wider society, it's no excuse.

Kids have been told repeatedly that they are untouchable by parents, teachers, police and local community. By removing the ability to discipline under-eighteens the State has helped create these little monsters and soon they'll be all grown up..
 
#10
Straitjacket said
Kids have been told repeatedly that they are untouchable by parents, teachers, police and local community. By removing the ability to discipline under-eighteens the State has helped create these little monsters and soon they'll be all grown up..
I fully agree with this statement. The seeds of this demise in discipline started in the 80's. We have no-one to blame but ourselves for allowing the majority of the yoof of today to be the vile, arrogant, gobsh1tes many of them have become.

Can the trend be reversed? Hopefully, but God knows where we start.
 
#11
Andyroo said:
Straitjacket said
Kids have been told repeatedly that they are untouchable by parents, teachers, police and local community. By removing the ability to discipline under-eighteens the State has helped create these little monsters and soon they'll be all grown up..
I fully agree with this statement. The seeds of this demise in discipline started in the 80's. We have no-one to blame but ourselves for allowing the majority of the yoof of today to be the vile, arrogant, gobsh1tes many of them have become.

Can the trend be reversed? Hopefully, but God knows where we start.
Start by shooting all the lawyers/civil rights/Liberty/AI activists.

Then we might have a small chance.
 
#12
Goatman said:
Er....(donning Nomex coverall)....the Metropolitan Police Traffic Unit is coming under fire at the moment because of a report based on CCTV footage which...um...( Helmet G6 chin strap done up)....which seems to indicate that about half the car-crime in London is committed by...um ....young black voters between 16 and 35 years of age......Veg , any truth in this scandalously un PC allegation ?

Source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2179561,00.html

Cameras set racial poser on car crime
Dipesh Gadher, Transport Correspondent

BRITAIN’S most senior policeman Sir Ian Blair is facing a race relations dilemma after the release of figures that reveal almost half the number of people arrested in relation to car crime in London are black. Blair, the Metropolitan police commissioner, has signed off a report by his force’s traffic unit which shows that black people account for 46% of all arrests generated by new automatic numberplate recognition (ANPR) cameras.

The technology allows car registration plates to be scanned and automatically run through databases to determine whether a vehicle is stolen, uninsured or has not had its road tax paid.

Each numberplate is also checked with the police national computer, where vehicles suspected of links to crimes such as robberies are flagged up.

The Met has deployed six mobile ANPR camera units in the capital, primarily in areas with high levels of street crime. When a suspect vehicle is identified, police officers are sent to intercept the driver.

Although ANPR technology is impartial, the disproportionate number of blacks being arrested has prompted the Met to investigate.

The arrests have been broken down by ethnicity in a report sent last month to the Metropolitan Police Authority (MPA), to which the force is accountable.

It reveals that between April 2005 and January this year the units generated 2,023 arrests. Of these 923 were black suspects, while 738 (36%) came from white backgrounds. Asians accounted for just over 9% of arrests.

...Okay officers, I'll come quietly...the Ministry of Thought-Crime did you say?....no, I have no idea whose black shirt that is...... :?
Let me see if I get this straight, the Met are investigated the no. of blacks being arrested due to the cameras activities.
What the hell are they going to do? Arrest the camera and charge it with race-hate crimes? What a waste of resources.
A racist camera, who would ahve thought it!
 
#13
Strait_Jacket said:
Agree that statistics can manipulted to support almost anything but it's hard not to trust your eyes and ears.

Lucky_Jim said:
Kids have been told repeatedly that they are untouchable by parents, teachers, police and local community. By removing the ability to discipline under-eighteens the State has helped create these little monsters and soon they'll be all grown up..
I agree. I understand that it was in the 90s that corporal punishment was abolished in the UK? Bad move I think. I said as much to a friend of mine who had a little bit of experience teaching young kids. She agreed that without effective punishment, kids are uncontrollable. Yet, she refused to agree that reasonable physical punishment is acceptable. I think there is a logical gap there. W/o being able to 'touch' kids/youths, the only sanction left is to exclude them either by suspension or expulsion. I do not think it takes a genius to figure out whether exclusion or physical punishment does greater long term damage.

I was caned several times in school when I was young, and today, those experience are no more than memories. But If I was expelled, I wonder if I will be at McDonalds now asking teenagers what drink they would like with their value meals.
 
#15
Cuchulainn said:
Let me see if I get this straight, the Met are investigated the no. of blacks being arrested due to the cameras activities.
What the hell are they going to do? Arrest the camera and charge it with race-hate crimes? What a waste of resources.
A racist camera, who would ahve thought it!
Depends if its Black and White, or Colour..
 
#16
I agree with most of the posters so far.

If you live in a city or on the outskirts of London you are going to have more problems with burglaries, car crime, petty theft and gangs. In the rural areas the crime are going to be more spasmodic as you do not have the mbile population you have in the cities and towns and people tend to stay in an area longer so look out for each other.

Add to this that a lot of crime has been downgraded to keep the stats up, there is a backlog of entering the results of court cases onto the computers in different forces by up to 7 months and all the above becomes just a snapshot.

This country is getting worse from the point that under 11's are now getting involved by linking up with teenagers and they know they are untouchable. These are the next generation and I don't hold a great deal of confidence in them :roll:
 
#17
Cuchulainn said:
Let me see if I get this straight, the Met are investigated the no. of blacks being arrested due to the cameras activities.
What the hell are they going to do? Arrest the camera and charge it with race-hate crimes? What a waste of resources.
A racist camera, who would ahve thought it!
F*** knows why there has to be some sort of investigation and a whole load of handwringing about this.

Why not ask why the blacks are committing a disproportionate amount of crime? Yet it cannot be ventured that this could possibly be the case. Instead we have to start from an absurd a priori that there is something at fault in the detection process.
 
#18
theoriginalphantom said:
Cuchulainn said:
Let me see if I get this straight, the Met are investigated the no. of blacks being arrested due to the cameras activities.
What the hell are they going to do? Arrest the camera and charge it with race-hate crimes? What a waste of resources.
A racist camera, who would ahve thought it!
Depends if its Black and White, or Colour..
Seems like a good idea racism is every where even the cameras are racists and have you ever seen the "Wanted Pictures"on Crimewatch,I'm surprised the programme hasn't been taken off the air.
 

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