Enfield Chargers

Discussion in 'Shooting, Hunting and Fishing' started by stoatman, Apr 2, 2009.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Regulation (d-u-d-u-d)

  2. Reverse regulation (u-d-u-d-u)

    0 vote(s)
  3. Staggered

  4. Other

    0 vote(s)
  1. I was mucking around with the new rifle last night, mostly practising using chargers (since it's about five years since I have a rifle which used them), and I kept suffering rim jams.

    I seem to remember that during my Mad Minute Pro days I always loaded the clips exactly as per the official way, i.e. down-up-down-up-down, and only rarely had a problem (which seemed to be caused by not pushing the top round a bit further into the magazine and letting go sharply).

    The Privi cases that I have got do not have the bevel on the back of the rim, and I suspect that this is exacerbating the problem.

    However, having also been a bit of a pro doing the mad minute with a Mosin Nagant (17 rounds is my record), I tried breaking the rules and loading the rounds staggered into the Enfield clips as I did with the Mosin.

    To my immense surprise, the rounds came out of the clips far more smoothly and with far less friction than when loaded the regulation way, and of course there were no rim jams. Of course, you have to get the clips in in the correct orientation, but after one evening of fumbling around with them in this configuration I am converted.

    Even better, I discovered that getting a second clip in with rounds staggered is 10 times easier, and 100 times more reliable!

    Slap my proverbial wrists for not doing it the "correct" way (and of course I understand that not loading the clips symmetrically could give enormous problems when loading out of bandoliers on the battlefield, but I guess the odd rim jam was more easily fixed than an entire magazine with rims reversed!)...
  2. It sounds great!! If only I knew what you were talking about?!?!
  3. Interesting point about the Privi cases not being bevelled. Might well have some bearing on the problem. I wouldn't get too **** about loading the clips in the regulation manner, as long as you're happy with the result.
  4. There are three variables in the problem; the loading sequence, the state of the magazine lips and the state of the charger. I think you just have to keep mucking about until you get the combination that works for the particular rifle you have. As you say "rim over rim" stacking will work in some combinations, but not in all, and is not stable in storage and handling...

    I did throw someone off the range once for using "modified" chargers which he had ground down and polished. We considered that this constituted "ammunition tampering" and was not in the spirit of the shoot. I suppose what you should really do for mad minute is have a pool from which the shooters draw random chargers which must be loaded to the regulation pattern.
  5. Sounds a bit severe to me when you consider the state the chargers are in. I have some SA chargers that are quite corroded and really not very practical to use. I see nothing wrong with cleaning them up with emery paper.

    As for how the rims are arranged, I always fill mine the 'official' way as a homage to my youth, but I noticed even in those ancient days that they could be in any old arrangement when you took them out of the bandoliers thay came in.

    And, in fact, it doesn't matter (with genuine UK specification ammunition, at least). I proved this to my own satisfaction many years ago by experiment and have since had it confirmed with a demonstration on one of those cut away training pieces - the rims sort themselves out as you push them down into the magazine.

    However, I suppose there might be something in the comment about the non-bevelled nature of Privi rims
    • Like Like x 1
  6. I thought the 5 round clip for the Enfield was the charger, as opposed to the charger used to feed the clips of the SLR into the Magazine
  7. I also have some Remington cases, but not enough to sacrifice some for dummies to see if it really is the bevel, but I very strongly suspect it is, since the bevel seems to allow the next rim to slip over nicely as the rounds go into the magazine, especially as they rotate a little in the vertical plane.

    When using the clips "in anger" I'm going to carry them in an American Springfield/Garand 10-pouch belt, so the stability of the staggered arrangement is assured.

    I'm also going to mark one end of the chargers with some fluorescent paint so that, in the case of a fumble, I know which end is which.

    I would not criticise anyone for using a bit of emery cloth on the inside of the chargers -- partly because I do it, but largely because the condition of many surplus chargers is appalling, and many can be extremely tight . Now, completely hacking up chargers is another matter...
  8. A common target shooter variation is rim-over-rim (staggred?) or: /////

    I always use the standard military format: _-_-_

    I suppose the advantages of the standard form were that it holds the rounds in a symmetric and secure fashion suitable for bandoliers, and that you get the same loading "feel" whichever way up the charger is inserted - perhaps useful for a soldier fumbling around in the darkness.

    In fact, the sequence of rounds in the charger actually makes no difference at all - the shape of the magazine means that the rounds always position themselves in the correct rim sequence. You can see it happen if you load a Skeleton-action rifle or magazine. One of the many un-obvious features that show just how clever the original designers were....
  9. As a youngster I was taught the regulation 3 down 2 up approach, but our shooting coach-who knew a thing or two told us to use staggered, which I did and have done whenever shooting rimmed rounds. I never encountered any problems though it is a number of years since I shot rimmed rounds.
  10. Clarification for those unfamiliar with the item:
    Lee-Enfield Charger with rounds:
    Regulation method of filling charger.

    The charger guide is integral to the receiver on models suitable for use with chargers (practically all of them)
  11. Charger loading sequence - sorry it's a bit blurry - camera phone and all that.
    No.4 Rifle showing action open, and integral charger guide. (Charger bridge)
    Charger in guide:
    Thumb presses rounds down into magazine:
    Rounds pressed further down, note cut out in receiver wall to allow clearance for thumb.(Perhaps a little difficult to see)
    Rounds in magazine, empty charger retained in charger guide. (Thumb cut out can be seen more clearly here.)
    On closing the bolt, the top round is stripped from the magazine and the charger automatically ejected.

    PS: Yes the scope can be for sale - please enquire.
    PPS: No the book is not for sale.
    PPPS: Anybody got an extractor spring for a No.4? Mine's broken and gone diffy.
  12. AMS militaria has them (www.AMSmilitaria.com catalogue page 81)
    Wolff ( www.gunsprings.com) also do a replacement
  13. Ta, will have a look.
  14. As for the polishing the chargers with emery cloth, I gather that some of the mad minute enthusiasts also use black graphite grate polish to further slick up the chargers. Anyone have any experience of trying this?
  15. I could see it working.

    I once bought several thousand rounds of South African in chargers and bandoliers. Dated about 1960.

    A lot of the chargers were "recovered" ones, some dated back to the First World War or earlier.
    There were card packers between the two chargers in each pocket.

    I've also come across original Radway Green in bandoliers. these had better quality bandoliers but no packers. I think they were original. - About 1956.

    In both cases it was noticeable how stiff and dirty the chargers were. Not exactly ideal in an emergency. The South African stuff was definitely as it was packed as I opened the soldered down tins myself.

    Made me wonder how many foul ups and stoppages those who went before us had on the battlefield when there wasn't time to prep every charger.