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Energy Smart meters to be fitted in every home

anglo

LE
How will they turn off individual appliances in your house via the smart metering system?
At the moment they will turn the lot off, in time they reckon the circuits will be split,
that is a few life times away, if ever, As I've said before, a winter like 1962/3
will stuff this country big time, UK used to be self-sufficient, now we import
that is a sure sign we are going down hill fast
 
At the moment they will turn the lot off, in time they reckon the circuits will be split,
that is a few life times away, if ever, As I've said before, a winter like 1962/3
will stuff this country big time, UK used to be self-sufficient, now we import
that is a sure sign we are going down hill fast
so lets say they do that.
What do you think the liabilities are going to be?
Spoiled food in a freezer not too critical maybe. What about an oxygen machine for someone suffering illness; where is the buck going to stop then? The industry is incredibly risk adverse.

Also how many homes to you have to shut down vs just shutting a cement works to save power. clue -A LOT.

I'm afraid much of this is scaremongering by the press, nonsense from detractors in the industry and the fervent tin foil hat paranoia.
 

anglo

LE
so lets say they do that.
What do you think the liabilities are going to be?
Spoiled food in a freezer not too critical maybe. What about an oxygen machine for someone suffering illness; where is the buck going to stop then? The industry is incredibly risk adverse.

Also how many homes to you have to shut down vs just shutting a cement works to save power. clue -A LOT.

I'm afraid much of this is scaremongering by the press, nonsense from detractors in the industry and the fervent tin foil hat paranoia.
Spoiled food in a freezer not too critical maybe.

Multiply that by a few thousand freezers

I don't think there will be any problems unless there is a bad winter
The more we rely on wind turbines the bigger the risk of power cuts,
due in part to lack of grid stability and failure of spinning reserve generators
when wind output is low
The power industry won't go into rolling power cuts, like South Africa is doing,
if there is a power cuts it will be down to equipment breakdowns IMHO
 
Being of "a certain age" as many others here, I recall all too well working through the 3 day week power cuts.
We managed. However we only managed ( some days just ) because "back in the day when I were a lad" the nearest thing to grid- driven leccy technology was your TV, fridge, cooker, central heating, or storage radiators.
Sure, fuel station leccy pumps, trains etc were impacted...but we still got through it. Everything else relied on manual systems.
No mobiles, home PC's, entertainment equipment, emergency equipment in hospitals, police, ambulance and fire service infrastructure wholly dependent on both intranet & internet computers, GPS...you name it.
Today? It would be complete & utter havoc. The list of today's "civilised" infrastructures being crippled knows no bounds. Hardly bears thinking of. This is why I doubt post-code power cut offs will happen..ever...bar a tech failure. It simply cannot happen now.
Then again.....who could have seen us the way we are with Covid this time last year.
My personal feeling is this winter is going to be a sh*tfest of stressful isolationist misery. Hope I'm very very wrong.
Don't know about you chaps, but we've had quite enough in this house. That's us with a new Freezeguard freezer stocked up in the workshop, and 3 industrial 5-shelf units in the loft stacked with tinned & dried packet non perishables...at our son's "instructions" who, given his job, has an information/projection based instinct it could turn very grim indeed. Counting up, it's around £1,000.00 of "stock" In theory I can cook varied balanced meals for 3 months without visiting a shop.
I'd probably go ape at the first feral fat gopper who got in my way anyhow.
I'm not relying on home delivery...because everyone else will. Back in April/May you could not buy a tin of crushed tomatoes or a tin of ham remember. Fresh meat counters closed, bread and milk went, and UHT flew off the shelves until...there was none. At least..... you'd best remember. Only ten days from it happening again in terms of people q-ing and rationing 2 tins -per. Again...potentially. It's a lottery. Nobody knows.
All I know is I can shut the door and view Armaggedon from a safe distance since we have put the efforts in.
Over the last 9 months, sad to say, I've become less tolerant of people outside my personal circle than ever before. And before, I never much liked people in general...but now I know why that bit better.
 
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Spoiled food in a freezer not too critical maybe.

Multiply that by a few thousand freezers

I don't think there will be any problems unless there is a bad winter
The more we rely on wind turbines the bigger the risk of power cuts,
due in part to lack of grid stability and failure of spinning reserve generators
when wind output is low
The power industry won't go into rolling power cuts, like South Africa is doing,
if there is a power cuts it will be down to equipment breakdowns IMHO
precisely.
The chances of energy suppliers turning off your power to help the grid are practically nil.
Believe it or not, they really don't like doing it even if you've not paid a bill.

if someone dies or is made seriously ill the liability and negative PR can be a nightmare.
Even pre-payment makes them nervous.
 
How will they turn off individual appliances in your house via the smart metering system?
To be clear, I don’t subscribe to the conspiracy theories surrounding smart meters but popping on my tinfoil hat for a moment...

I suppose there is some underlying notion that ultimately, every electrical device connecting to the grid will be a directly addressable ‘smart device’ that registers its presence to join the grid before it will work.

Any household or group of households could be isolated remotely but going a step further, any device (or device type) could be isolated by house, street, district, town etc...

That would certainly prevent life support and dialysis machines being disconnected.



This post was brought to you by:

1600422838034.jpeg
 

Blogg

LE
precisely.
The chances of energy suppliers turning off your power to help the grid are practically nil.
Believe it or not, they really don't like doing it even if you've not paid a bill.

if someone dies or is made seriously ill the liability and negative PR can be a nightmare.
Even pre-payment makes them nervous.

Despite all the BS they won't selectively cut off devices or households.

(If the Grid starts to wobble or fall over algorithms will, say, chop half of Essex for a while but they are treating all customers equally badly so that's OK)

It's more about demand management by imposing penal pricing during high demand versus capacity periods. Which, if the windy stuff isn't churning, will be more frequent.

Current proposal is that consumers will get a warning via smartphone along the lines of:

"You are about to be fiscally raped. Turn shit off or go cry to someone else"
 

endure

GCM
As usual the Daily Mail article is largely a load of old bollocks. To be frank, this project is a threat to the big energy suppliers profits and hold on the market, so I am always suspicious when I see negative stories.


I find myself AGAIN responding to another Daily Mail article about SMART metering which is a lot of old tosh.
AGAIN, Yes in theory this could be done, but it would require substantial changes to the current program. Large and very very expensive changes, there are much easier ways for the Govt to turn off power to houses,

But it is steadily apparent most people have no idea how this whole program works.
On the side of your house you will have an ESME (electricity meter) and possibly a GSME (gas meter).
A device called the Communications Hub draws data from these. It will send consumption data to the PPMID (the little LCD display box in your house) and data to the Energy Provider. At its heart, the Hub is essentially a basic mobile phone. If you live in Scotland. Northern England it is made by Flextronics and supplied by Arqiva (they also run the UK terrestrial broadcast network). Central or Southern England or wales, it will be made by WNC or Toshiba and supplied by Telefonica.
There are about 30 business involved with installing these hubs. Some are energy companies (British Gas, SSE, et al) others are businesses that fit them on behalf of smaller energy providers.

The scale of the challenge just to get one fitted to every domestic property in the UK is HUGE.
To then try and use them to control your energy use by turning off your house or even individual appliances, whilst technically possible, is currently years away. The whole thing is governed by the SEC and even making minor changes takes months and more often longer than that. The range of stakeholders is quite extensive.

This is being run by Smart DCC which is technically part of Capita, but it is a ring fenced business,
It gets admin support from Capita (recruiting, payroll, that sort of thing). But it does operate as it's own entity.
Because it is a government sanctioned monopoly there is extensive oversight from BEIS, OFGEM, Gemserve.

I will repeat, the main drivers for this project was the idea is that you'll be able to change energy suppliers as easily as changing mobile suppliers, this will improve competition and help drive down prices. You could change energy suppliers on a monthly basis if you choose to, it will be that simple.
Hence why they (the big providers) are offering good tariffs to lock you into 12mth+ contracts with them.
The project also intends to allow people to better monitor their consumption and see what they've spent etc; thus it will help reduce consumption.

So you can safely put the tin foil away.

If you want to know more in excruciating detail; want to know your ESME, GSME, SMKI, SMETS1 from your SMETS2 , its all in here....

Linky to SMART METERING FOR DUMMIES - PDF BOOK

e2a
, notice the idea in the article is proposed by SSE (large company) and is being fiercely opposed by Octopus (new entrant/challenger). What this is about is that SSE don't want to pay compensation if the grid cuts out so are suggesting this ridiculous idea to try an leavage BEIS/OFGEM.

The link isn't working for me...
 

endure

GCM
At the moment they will turn the lot off, in time they reckon the circuits will be split,
that is a few life times away, if ever, As I've said before, a winter like 1962/3
will stuff this country big time, UK used to be self-sufficient, now we import
that is a sure sign we are going down hill fast


What do you mean by the circuits will be split? To have individual access to each appliance in your house they'd have to rewire it.
 
Suppliers already have the facility to remotely turn off your supply. With the next generation of smart meters they will be able to selectively switch off parts of the meter output.

This would mean that your installation would be split into light and heavy loads such as sockets and lighting on one side, showers and electric vehicle charging points on another.

When demand is high and they're struggling they can knock off the heavy loads remotely still allowing grannies iron lung to keep on working and Tyler Gonorrhea-Mays turkey twisters to remain frozen.

this is fine for new builds and rewires as this installation split is easily achieved but on existing installations the consumers/owners cannot be expected to foot the bill.

Another option is to have solar panels charging a battery in your home which will provide power when demand is high on the network, such as a Tesla Power Wall.
 

cowgoesmoo

Old-Salt
How will they turn off individual appliances in your house via the smart metering system?

Wifi smart plugs can be used to control individual sockets via an app or web browser (e.g ) so the technology exists, but just not practical to roll out on a country-sized basis. Incorporating this into smart meters and the technicalities of controlling dozens of devices across the 28 million UK households would be ridiculously expensive and complex. Easy to defeat by simply removing the smart plug and plugging directly into the socket, or connecting the appliance direct to the mains to bypass plug and sockets completely.

Anyway, all the clever people know that Smart Meters are just a smoke screen to divert the sheeple from the true mind control devices - 5G routers - coming to a lounge near you soon...:boogie:
 
Stand by generator run today, a couple of thousand litres of nice non bio derv sitting ready only meters on this is fuel level, volts and amps.
Sod yer smart control metering.
 
Suppliers already have the facility to remotely turn off your supply. With the next generation of smart meters they will be able to selectively switch off parts of the meter output.
This would mean that your installation would be split into light and heavy loads such as sockets and lighting on one side, showers and electric vehicle charging points on another.

As I have previously said, yes this is technically possible, in the same way it is technically possible to send humans to Mars.
However the way the system is currently configured, it would be nearly impossible. Updating the firmware is challenging enough, but this would require major hardware changes.
also what would be the point? Houses don't draw that much power and are generally using less as appliances become more efficient. It would far more efficient/easier to turn off/down say a cement works than turn off 10,000 houses.
The key question is who would make the decision. Because that person(s) and the people actually able to access the network are going to be pretty different organisations, who don't generally agree.
This is UK CNI and the security and controls around it are pretty extensive.
 
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anglo

LE
What do you mean by the circuits will be split? To have individual access to each appliance in your house they'd have to rewire it.

You're correct,
If you read my post

At the moment they will turn the lot off, in time they reckon the circuits will be split,
that is a few life times away, if ever,

Don't worry, not in your lifetime
 
As I have previously said, yes this is technically possible, in the same way it is technically possible to send humans to Mars.
However the way the system is currently configured, it would be nearly impossible. Updating the firmware is challenging enough, but this would require major hardware changes.
also what would be the point? Houses don't draw that much power and are generally using less as appliances become more efficient. It would far more efficient/easier to turn off/down say a cement works than turn off 10,000 houses.
The key question is who would make the decision. Because that person(s) and the people actually able to access the network are going to be pretty different organisations, who don't generally agree.
This is UK CNI and the security and controls around it are pretty extensive.
This is where the third generation of meters come in. Configured in a similar way to current off peak supplies for storage heating. Having skim read the requirements for SMETS3 meters there is mentioned partial load switching.

On the whole control will be made easier, by the time SMETS3 come into main stream use 5G will have been around for a while. The vast majority of smart meters use the mobile network for data connection with the downfall being poor reception areas especially when a lot of older builds make it more difficult for them to get decent network reception, the 5G roll out is planned to get around this by having smaller microcells in a lot of areas to improve reception and increase capacity.

Our demand for electricity is growing, with natural gas becoming the devil more people are switching to electric for their heating and hot water supplies. Add to this the push for electric vehicles and the DNO network needing significant upgrades due to years of privatisation something needs to be done.

Technically we already have the means to do this, but it will need a lot of changes, not just by the networks, but also by the general public with a lot of support from government. This is where it will all fall flat on it's arse.
 

anglo

LE
This is where the third generation of meters come in. Configured in a similar way to current off peak supplies for storage heating. Having skim read the requirements for SMETS3 meters there is mentioned partial load switching.

On the whole control will be made easier, by the time SMETS3 come into main stream use 5G will have been around for a while. The vast majority of smart meters use the mobile network for data connection with the downfall being poor reception areas especially when a lot of older builds make it more difficult for them to get decent network reception, the 5G roll out is planned to get around this by having smaller microcells in a lot of areas to improve reception and increase capacity.

Our demand for electricity is growing, with natural gas becoming the devil more people are switching to electric for their heating and hot water supplies. Add to this the push for electric vehicles and the DNO network needing significant upgrades due to years of privatisation something needs to be done.

Technically we already have the means to do this, but it will need a lot of changes, not just by the networks, but also by the general public with a lot of support from government. This is where it will all fall flat on it's arse.

needing significant upgrades due to years of privatisation something needs to be done.

Nail on head
 
This is where the third generation of meters come in. Configured in a similar way to current off peak supplies for storage heating. Having skim read the requirements for SMETS3 meters there is mentioned partial load switching.

Technically we already have the means to do this, but it will need a lot of changes, not just by the networks, but also by the general public with a lot of support from government. This is where it will all fall flat on it's arse.
The bold, spot on assessment. :)

As for SMETS3, I reckon that will arrive about the same time as the first manned mission to Mars!
 
I will repeat, the main drivers for this project was the idea is that you'll be able to change energy suppliers as easily as changing mobile suppliers, this will improve competition and help drive down prices. You could change energy suppliers on a monthly basis if you choose to, it will be that simple.
Hence why they (the big providers) are offering good tariffs to lock you into 12mth+ contracts with them.
The project also intends to allow people to better monitor their consumption and see what they've spent etc; thus it will help reduce consumption.

So you can safely put the tin foil away.
Snipped for brevity and to focus on what seems to be a issue with most of us who wont have smart meters dislike in the main.

There does seem to be a issue with the ability to swap suppliers without for some a mahoosive admin vortex, despite as you point it being one of the drivers of the scheme. Now of course once you introduce differing companies supply 'hardware and software requirements' into any scheme even with a central agency in charge of overview.

Then, problems will follow not by dint of Tin Foil hattery rather that 'hardware and software' is inherently the work of the devil. :razz:

I also have an issue with the ridiculous notion its going to save the customer money, the swath of adverts about that, at first made me chuckle then became somewhat grating. If you need a smart meter to understand that leaving a light on in a household empty room, not to leave your TV on standby etc. Then your a moron.

That it has increased energy costs too the various suppliers. who because of the governments' push to decarbonise and green the economy, are having to fund the pushing it out and the installations. While it will in the long term make the suppliers a little more profit, right now it is not and to some degree we the consumer are bearing the cost.

I have no issue with companies making profits or trying to clean up the means of producing energy, I have a massive issue with the 'green various new deal idiots' trying to push us back to some kind of utopian agrarian society.

Like it or not we require as a evolved species, the ability to plug it in and switch it on, if only the political and media class could tell some home truths, about why and how we can try do that, while still be mindful of try not to pollute and cause irreparable ecological damage.
 

theoriginalphantom

MIA
Book Reviewer
Snipped for brevity and to focus on what seems to be an issue with most of us who won't have smart meters dislike in the main.

There does seem to be an issue with the ability to swap suppliers without for some a mahoosive admin vortex, despite as you point it being one of the drivers of the scheme. Now of course once you introduce differing companies supply 'hardware and software requirements' into any scheme even with a central agency in charge of overview.

Then, problems will follow not by dint of Tin Foil hattery rather that 'hardware and software' is inherently the work of the devil. :razz:

I also have an issue with the ridiculous notion its going to save the customer money, the swath of adverts about that, at first made me chuckle then became somewhat grating. If you need a smart meter to understand that leaving a light on in a household empty room, not to leave your TV on standby, etc. Then you're a moron.

That it has increased energy costs to the various suppliers. who because of the governments' push to decarbonise and green the economy, are having to fund the pushing it out and the installations. While it will in the long term make the suppliers a little more profit, right now it is not and to some degree, we the consumer are bearing the cost.

I have no issue with companies making profits or trying to clean up the means of producing energy, I have a massive issue with the 'green various new deal idiots' trying to push us back to some kind of utopian agrarian society.

Like it or not we require as an evolved species, the ability to plug it in and switch it on, if only the political and media class could tell some home truths, about why and how we can try do that, while still be mindful of try not to pollute and cause irreparable ecological damage.


I live in a bungalow.
I can see the 'east wing' (or Mini-Me Mk 1s bedroom as it's otherwise known) from the hallway, much like I can see every other room in the house from the hallway. if I look out of any of the windows into the back garden I can check for the shed, office, garage, and workshop to see if they have any lights left on.


I don't need a smart meter, I simply need a small amount of mobility to check on things.
 

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