Energy Smart meters to be fitted in every home

@endure

The smart security behind the GB Smart Metering System - NCSC Site

A very Laymans terms guide to how the Smart Meter system has been designed with security very much a priority - why? because all the 'tinfoil hattery' isnt tinfoil hattery. Its very real stuff.

This from the people who actually designed the system (and NCSC are effectively GCHQ, so i'm not sure how much more technically competent you would like the article to be if you cant see the issues from this).

EDit: there are also the actually test reports for a variety of products which have been tested by commercial CPA labs (people like NCC, ContextIS, Roke which detail the specific vulnerabilities of each individual product)

I pointed out earlier in the thread that GCHQ have had a hand in the design of security for smart meters. Perhaps you missed that?

The conclusion of report you linked to:

"Conclusion: delivering proportionate and practical security

We hope that this article has explained the thinking behind the design of the Smart Metering System. DECC, with support from GCHQ has security right at the top of the list of things it cares about. Of course, no system is completely secure, and nothing is invulnerable. However, we’re confident that the Smart Metering System strikes the best balance between security and business needs, whilst meeting broader policy and national security objectives."
 
Or they will just raise the taxes already levied on electricity without having to rely on such tinfoiled hatted schemes.
It is troubling minds because as the EV population rises £28-30Bn revenues from road fuel duty and VAT on same will shrink

Jacking VAT on all electricity from 5% to say standard rate 20% might be a tad problematic.

Road Pricing possible but a huge spend as existing camera tend to monitor motorways and main roads only.

To get full coverage need telematics in all vehicles (so big brother will be watching you).

Periodic charge under a self assessment process checked by reference to actual annual mileage at MoT inspections also possible

But none of that solves the Grid load management problem, which is largely the basis on which smart meters were really introduced: high demand premium pricing.

No matter what, the Treasury still trying to dream up best way to squeeze the Zero Emission Motorist.
 
It is troubling minds because as the EV population rises £28-30Bn revenues from road fuel duty and VAT on same will shrink

Jacking VAT on all electricity from 5% to say standard rate 20% might be a tad problematic.

Road Pricing possible but a huge spend as existing camera tend yo monitor motorways and main roads only.

To get full coverage need telematics in all vehicles (so big brother will be watching you).

Petioduc charge under a self assessment process checked by reference to actual annual mileage at MoT inspections also possible

But none of that solves the Grid load management problem, which is largely the basis on which smart meters were really introduced: high demand premium pricing.

No matter what, the Treasury still trying to dream up best way to squeeze the Zero Emission Motorist.
Why would increasing taxes be problematic? Governments all over the world do it all the time.
 
In march last year our lights went out, the whole house , no electric, the feeder cable from the street to our meter had popped, under the tarmac on our drive, this was at 19.00hrs . by 20.00 hrs a gang of workers ripped my tarmac up, trenched out the cable AND the gas pipes, which were only inches away, and effected a repair, this went on into the early hours, with the gas blokes in attendance, a JCB, a power generator, both utility's supervisors, barriers, several trucks and a crew bus, in all about 15 people, finally finishing at 03,00 hrs the next morning. The supervisor told me that the whole lot costs on average about £15,000, including returning my drive back to its original condition. I asked him how much this was going to cost me, he said nothing," That's what the standing charge pays for".
There shouldn't be a standing charge, Have a read of this report, there's
enough profit in the unit charge

"However an earlier analysis of energy company profits by Lazarus Research, looking at all the big six providers except SSE, found that gross margins had expanded from 20.7% to 22.6%, a fourth consecutive annual increase. It singled out gas supply as “particularly profitable”, adding that the figures “highlight why the sector is in the political spotlight”.

The figures are likely to provoke fresh controversy regarding overcharging of consumers. An investigation into the energy market by the Competition and Markets Authority concluded last year that the big six suppliers were overcharging by £1.4bn annually."

Profit margins at big six energy firms hit highest level on record
 
Why would increasing taxes be problematic? Governments all over the world do it all the time.
The trick is to introduce stealth taxes that the public won't notice, or say make a pledge to not increase tax and then increase say national insurance or vat rates and then claim they don't count as a tax

Look at employers NI, that is literally a tax on employment but how many people complain about it or even notice as it doesn't come out of their pay packet.
 
Asking drivers not to charge their cars the minute they get home but to wait until grid load has dropped late at night so that costly upgrades to grid infrastructure aren't necessary? Sounds quite sensible to me.

"If enough drivers top up their cars when they get home from work it would put extra pressure on power networks, which already face a peak in demand between 4pm and 6pm.

Such a scenario would require costly upgrades to local electricity grids, which everyone would ultimately pay for through their energy bills.

“If electric vehicle users choose to charge during peak times, under current arrangements they will impose considerable costs, which will be borne by all consumers,” Ofgem said as it published reforms to promote the use of electric cars.

Vulnerable energy consumers would likely object to “subsidising more affluent early adopters” of electric cars, the regulator added.


Ofgem’s solution is to encourage plug-in car owners to use smart charging, where a vehicle could be plugged in at 5pm but would only start powering up at midnight, when electricity demand is much lower.

Incentives to use cheaper charging could include energy tariffs that offered cheaper electricity at certain times, such as when solar and wind power are generating larger amounts of power, or when demand is low."
 
Asking drivers not to charge their cars the minute they get home but to wait until grid load has dropped late at night so that costly upgrades to grid infrastructure aren't necessary? Sounds quite sensible to me.

"If enough drivers top up their cars when they get home from work it would put extra pressure on power networks, which already face a peak in demand between 4pm and 6pm.

Such a scenario would require costly upgrades to local electricity grids, which everyone would ultimately pay for through their energy bills.

“If electric vehicle users choose to charge during peak times, under current arrangements they will impose considerable costs, which will be borne by all consumers,” Ofgem said as it published reforms to promote the use of electric cars.

Vulnerable energy consumers would likely object to “subsidising more affluent early adopters” of electric cars, the regulator added.


Ofgem’s solution is to encourage plug-in car owners to use smart charging, where a vehicle could be plugged in at 5pm but would only start powering up at midnight, when electricity demand is much lower.

Incentives to use cheaper charging could include energy tariffs that offered cheaper electricity at certain times, such as when solar and wind power are generating larger amounts of power, or when demand is low."
It is precisely what it has always been but denied thin end of the wedge for premium pricing and demand management.

Don't think it will stop at electric cars.
 
It is precisely what it has always been but denied thin end of the wedge for premium pricing and demand management.

Don't think it will stop at electric cars.

The supply of energy is not a monopoly. In December 2017 there were 62 suppliers of electricity in the retail sector.
 
I pointed out earlier in the thread that GCHQ have had a hand in the design of security for smart meters. Perhaps you missed that?

The conclusion of report you linked to:

"Conclusion: delivering proportionate and practical security

We hope that this article has explained the thinking behind the design of the Smart Metering System. DECC, with support from GCHQ has security right at the top of the list of things it cares about. Of course, no system is completely secure, and nothing is invulnerable. However, we’re confident that the Smart Metering System strikes the best balance between security and business needs, whilst meeting broader policy and national security objectives."
Both my posts were in response to you 1. Claiming that security flaws were “tin-foil hattery” and subsequently 2. Asking “how?” Data could be exploited (such as pattern of life recognition or selling customer data) and also how it was possible to exploit the technology itself.

You’re wrong in your previous assertions, you clearly have no knowledge of anything smart meter related and now you’re moving the goalposts/wibbling about nothing in order to try and be ‘right’.

At this stage there is no explaining to you any of the above, as you’re effectively sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting ‘lalalala’.

Enjoy your day.
 
Both my posts were in response to you 1. Claiming that security flaws were “tin-foil hattery” and subsequently 2. Asking “how?” Data could be exploited (such as pattern of life recognition or selling customer data) and also how it was possible to exploit the technology itself.

You’re wrong in your previous assertions, you clearly have no knowledge of anything smart meter related and now you’re moving the goalposts/wibbling about nothing in order to try and be ‘right’.

At this stage there is no explaining to you any of the above, as you’re effectively sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting ‘lalalala’.

Enjoy your day.

On the other hand it could just be that I disagree with you. Have a good day yourself.
 
I pointed out earlier in the thread that GCHQ have had a hand in the design of security for smart meters. Perhaps you missed that?

The conclusion of report you linked to:

"Conclusion: delivering proportionate and practical security

We hope that this article has explained the thinking behind the design of the Smart Metering System. DECC, with support from GCHQ has security right at the top of the list of things it cares about. Of course, no system is completely secure, and nothing is invulnerable. However, we’re confident that the Smart Metering System strikes the best balance between security and business needs, whilst meeting broader policy and national security objectives."

Then there's this

However, the intelligence agency GCHQ has raised security concerns over the proposal. The introduction of internet-connected smart meters could enable hackers to steal personal details and defraud UK customers.

The danger of a connected smart home is that once one system is compromised, like a smart metre, then hackers may gain access other computers and internet-connected devices around the home. These devices may contain sensitive personal information.

Nick Hunn, a wireless technology expert from London-based WiFore, told The Mail on Sunday: “This smart meter technology has created a Trojan horse. My understanding is that GCHQ was not best pleased when it realised how insecure these devices could be and is still not happy.”
“The big problem is that the smart meter project is being blindly driven forward by career civil servants who do not have a clue about cyber security and who do not care as the taxpayer is footing the bill.”

https://www.information-age.com/smart-metres-vulnerable-cyber-attacks-123470837/
 
The supply of energy is not a monopoly. In December 2017 there were 62 suppliers of electricity in the retail sector.
I prefer the term 'cartel'.
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
“The big problem is that the smart meter project is being blindly driven forward by career civil servants who do not have a clue about cyber security and who do not care as the taxpayer is footing the bill.”
I believe that's the crucial point. It very much seems to be a project that's been hammered out in a back-room somewhere over a glass of whatever and someone without a real clue finally saying: "That sounds like a good idea. Let's do it". It appears to be the normal method in the UK.

Is anyone aware of whether the actual manufacturers of these (maybe no so) smart-meters had any input during the "consultations"? Put another way; did any brown envelopes change hands?

MsG
 
I believe that's the crucial point. It very much seems to be a project that's been hammered out in a back-room somewhere over a glass of whatever and someone without a real clue finally saying: "That sounds like a good idea. Let's do it". It appears to be the normal method in the UK.
It certainly seemed like the normal method in the SWP.
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
Can I just derail the thread to make sure everyone knows how much I dislike Bugsy for making me feel so inferior?
FOC:smile::smile::smile:

MsG
 

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