Energy Smart meters to be fitted in every home

You want to know, I'll give it a go
It's in the middle of the night, two things have switched in, one twice and one a few times,
You have a fridge and a deep freeze,
7oclock, a increase in amps, it's a kettle, I know how much current it's taking X by the time it's on
and I know how much water you have boiled,
small increase in current, held steady, TV?
Increase in current for three minites, A toaster
No change you're having breakfast,
Current drops to zero TV off, You have gone to work
Back to fidge and deep freeze swiching in and out
They're going to look at your smart meter 24hours a day 365days a year
I've just taken a simple look, imagine what a expert could do
you still want a smart meter
So you've got an "NHC" in Electrical Engineering (# 434) - from your lack of ability to spell HNC
and the above post - i'll pass on your advice thanks :).

These meters I believe are to help the dumbasses who leave everything switched on 24/7 - not for the aware people who already monitor usage and can read their old meters & calculate the costs "on the back of a fag packet".

I've just had new meters fitted because I'm now too f**kin lazy to crawl around in the meter cupboard and go through the bollox of logging onto their website.

They'll probably make meters compulsory in the future & then you'll have to pay for them.
I'd have guessed their thinking is if you can get the worst wasters to cut down usage by 10 - 15% - it's a 50 billion
nuke power station less to build
 

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
I'd have guessed their thinking is if you can get the worst wasters to cut down usage by 10 - 15% - it's a 50 billion
nuke power station less to build
The real problem with green thinking is the fact that apart from hydro, all other methods are weather dependent. Alternatively, when you have all your little green machines, R-R can build rather nice small reactors to stand by.
 
So you've got an "NHC" in Electrical Engineering (# 434) - from your lack of ability to spell HNC
and the above post - i'll pass on your advice thanks :).

These meters I believe are to help the dumbasses who leave everything switched on 24/7 - not for the aware people who already monitor usage and can read their old meters & calculate the costs "on the back of a fag packet".

I've just had new meters fitted because I'm now too f**kin lazy to crawl around in the meter cupboard and go through the bollox of logging onto their website.

They'll probably make meters compulsory in the future & then you'll have to pay for them.
I'd have guessed their thinking is if you can get the worst wasters to cut down usage by 10 - 15% - it's a 50 billion
nuke power station less to build
HNC Thanks [missed that}

If enough people cut a down their energy use, The profits of of the companies will drop,
unit price will rise or the standing charge will go up

Edit corrected my FU
 
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Quite...perhaps a built in........


Apologies if this has been posted already, but they don't appear to be very effective.
Smart meters to cut bills 'by just £11'
Hardly a surprise that the benefits of the Smart Meter Rollout have been somewhat over-egged, especially as the consumer is paying a grand price for the development, rollout and installation cost.

IIRC a certain E Miliband MP was the Energy Minister at the time of the introduction of the programme to install these meters in every household, at the expense of the consumer.
 
Funny that these are in the news again- I was left an answerphone message on Friday asking me about “upgrading” to a “smart” meter.
I agree with other posters who have made the point that if there is an initial saving to the consumer, it will soon be nullified by price rises plus the pita of the thing never working properly again if you switch supplier.
They can poke it as far as I am concerned.
 
Probably been said before but now that most homes have at least one Mobile Tel / Tablet etc would it not have been a little , Hi Hi , cheaper to have developed Supplier Apps which could provide similar functionality by users merely entering readings which could when necessary being sent onto their supplier .

At the moment I shall not have a Smart Meter installed .... only ~25% take up so far ... ~50 % of those installed give problems when changing suppliers ... Comms System not fully rolled out across the UK ... with a simple Excel Spreadsheet I can monitor usage / cost as required .... currently ( See what I did there ) I can only see benefits to the supplier .
 
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My standing charge is now £110 a year [just gone up] They are getting
that money for doing f*ck all,
how much are they making just in the standing charge



Robbing Bastards
 
Just as an aside, as standing charges were mentioned, anyone in an all electric house (no gas, no oil) care to say how much their average electricity bill is per month?
Here in Spain we have to pay one supplier for actually supplying the electricity (you pay depending on how much power you are contracted for) and then a "green" tax on top with VAT at 21% stuck on that which makes my standing charges (without plugging anything in) about €250 a year.
You then pay another company for the amount of electric you use although in some cases the supplier and the provider are the same company.
The smart meters are being installed with no "you have a choice", they just switch you off for about 20 minutes while they do it. Not the all-singing all-dancing ones like in UK, just to limit the amount of power you can have and charging you the going rate for the day. Plus the added advantage (to them) of not paying someone to come around and take your meter reading.
 
https://www.researchgate.net/public..._Activities_of_Daily_Living_with_Smart_Meters

- Document

Smart electricity meters can be dangerously insecure, warns expert

Knock yourself out.

Several government agencies were looking at how to exploit the data back in the SMETS1 days, a few years ago - not to mention how to exploit the technology itself.

It’s also worth noting that there isn’t even an Assurance standard in existence yet for smart meters, they generally go through CPA which isn’t designed nor suitable for them - NCSC might have something in the next year or two....
 
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https://www.researchgate.net/public..._Activities_of_Daily_Living_with_Smart_Meters

- Document

Smart electricity meters can be dangerously insecure, warns expert

Knock yourself out.

Several government agencies were looking at how to exploit the data back in the SMETS1 days, a few years ago - not to mention how to exploit the technology itself.

It’s also worth noting that there isn’t even an Assurance standard in existence yet for smart meters, they generally go through CPA which isn’t designed nor suitable for them - NCSC might have something in the next year or two....

The first link is 5 years old and thus massively out of date

The second link leads to the IEEE website but not to any specific paper (at least as far as my web browser sees).

The 3rd link leads to a Guardian article whose author said:

"“But even if you don’t have smart devices, you are still at risk. An attacker who controls the meter also controls the meter’s software, allowing him to cause it to literally explode.” "

Knock yourself out indeed. The only way I'll knock myself out by reading this guff is by battering my head against the wall combating its tinfoil hatted stupidity.
 
I think the possibility of variable pricing is quite clever, as it could encourage people to make greener choices

For example, if it was particularly windy &/or sunny there will be a lot of renewable power being produced, so they could reduce the price of electricity in order to encourage people to use energy hungry appliances like Tumble dryers at these times.
Yes it is about sunny and windy renewables not being on tap all the time but it's not tumble driers. No, something far worse in terms of network capacity that is a primary driver: Electric Vehicles.

By 2040 per the Great Plan, all vehicles to be sold in the UK will be zero emission, predominantly electric in the mind of HMG but Hydrogen fuel cell is looking more feasible by the month.

And it is only by active demand management that the grid won't keel over as the number of EV'S grows. That is what a lot of it is now about plus the small matter of....tax.

How do you make up for loss of Road fuel duties? Ah yes, smart meters that can distinguish between load types, especially as most will have a domestic fast charge unit installed in order to avoid the snails pace charging off a 13A 3Kw domestic socket.
 
Hardly a surprise that the benefits of the Smart Meter Rollout have been somewhat over-egged, especially as the consumer is paying a grand price for the development, rollout and installation cost.

IIRC a certain E Miliband MP was the Energy Minister at the time of the introduction of the programme to install these meters in every household, at the expense of the consumer.
I wonder how much he later trousered in "consultancy fees" or what non executive but lucrative directorships came his way.
 
Funny that these are in the news again- I was left an answerphone message on Friday asking me about “upgrading” to a “smart” meter.
I agree with other posters who have made the point that if there is an initial saving to the consumer, it will soon be nullified by price rises plus the pita of the thing never working properly again if you switch supplier.
They can poke it as far as I am concerned.
I was told my gas meter was going to be replaced by a new "smart" meter.
I asked if they could at the same time move the meter from where it is now to the front of the house where the electricity meter is.
They said they would have to get an engineer to look first, which he subsequently did.
I was then told it would cost me £1,800 plus VAT to do so.
This for a job my gas boiler & appliance servicing bloke reckons would take an hour or two at most.
Needless to say, the buggers have been told to get back to me when the temperature in Hades falls below 0ºC regarding doing anything with meters, smart or not.
 
How do you make up for loss of Road fuel duties? Ah yes, smart meters that can distinguish between load types, especially as most will have a domestic fast charge unit installed in order to avoid the snails pace charging off a 13A 3Kw domestic socket.

Or they will just raise the taxes already levied on electricity without having to rely on such tinfoiled hatted schemes.
 
Re Ed Milliband, I dunno but these smart meters were probably his only legacy. Research published a year ago in Energy Policy (and reported in The Times) warned of chaos, expense, and inflated claims of energy savings. Also "consumer confusion and resistance", nobody understood the scheme or trusted it.
The paper argued that rather than engaging consumers about the potential benefits, the technology has only generated ‘confusion and resistance’ in many households. There is little awareness of the benefits or understanding of how the technology works, even in those households where the technology has been installed
‘Confusion and resistance’ slows down UK smart meter roll-out.

This week the scheme came under investigation. Shite communication, predictable chaos, and firms out for a fast buck? surely not.

The Smart Meter Implementation Programme seems a bit ambitious, to be kind; the government planned to install smart meters in every home by 2020 but good luck with installing 40,000 smart meters a day.
 
My standing charge is now £110 a year [just gone up] They are getting
that money for doing f*ck all,
how much are they making just in the standing charge



Robbing Bastards
In march last year our lights went out, the whole house , no electric, the feeder cable from the street to our meter had popped, under the tarmac on our drive, this was at 19.00hrs . by 20.00 hrs a gang of workers ripped my tarmac up, trenched out the cable AND the gas pipes, which were only inches away, and effected a repair, this went on into the early hours, with the gas blokes in attendance, a JCB, a power generator, both utility's supervisors, barriers, several trucks and a crew bus, in all about 15 people, finally finishing at 03,00 hrs the next morning. The supervisor told me that the whole lot costs on average about £15,000, including returning my drive back to its original condition. I asked him how much this was going to cost me, he said nothing," That's what the standing charge pays for".
 
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The first link is 5 years old and thus massively out of date

The second link leads to the IEEE website but not to any specific paper (at least as far as my web browser sees).

The 3rd link leads to a Guardian article whose author said:

"“But even if you don’t have smart devices, you are still at risk. An attacker who controls the meter also controls the meter’s software, allowing him to cause it to literally explode.” "

Knock yourself out indeed. The only way I'll knock myself out by reading this guff is by battering my head against the wall combating its tinfoil hatted stupidity.
The first link is still relevant - they’re still deploying first gen meters. It also shows you how they build pattern of life information and methodology for exploits.

The second is behind a paywall.

The third shows that smart meters are insecure. How does still being at risk if you don’t have a smart meter, magically mean smart meters are safe?

You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.
 
@endure

The smart security behind the GB Smart Metering System - NCSC Site

A very Laymans terms guide to how the Smart Meter system has been designed with security very much a priority - why? because all the 'tinfoil hattery' isnt tinfoil hattery. Its very real stuff.

This from the people who actually designed the system (and NCSC are effectively GCHQ, so i'm not sure how much more technically competent you would like the article to be if you cant see the issues from this).

EDit: there are also the actually test reports for a variety of products which have been tested by commercial CPA labs (people like NCC, ContextIS, Roke which detail the specific vulnerabilities of each individual product)
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
It's rather entertaining not having a smart meter. I've noticed that every time I send in a reading, which is about once every three months or if I get an email requesting one then about five days later a meter reader turns up.
Last time I asked him, " I suppose you will be out of a job once every one has a smart meter"?
He stated that there are enough homes just in this area without smart meters to keep in the job till he retires, bloody hell he's only in his early fifties. I said "you can rely on me, see you again soon". Further more I just like the idea of little me telling the nosey bastards and the government to do one.
I'm also doing my bit for the economy by keeping poor Bob who has one of the most boring jobs I can imagine in gainful employment.
 

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