..and I thought I was the only one that thought that :(
The words paranoid and unrealistic spring to mind.......

As one of the great uncut, I have no axe to grind personally - I would just point out that there are certain geo-political maximums which cannot be exceeded and this map is several of them !


very funny but i doubt that the israelis would want to dominate the middle east in that way , most of them just want to live in peace without fear of their lives
Could you explain why if thats the case they are still insistent on being in the occupied territories, and are in violation of near on 70 UN resolutions since 1948, im sorry but for a nation that dont want war, and want to live in peace you would think they would try slightly harder for this.


That is assuming, of course, that they want peace-a state of perpetual war allows them to develop their nuclear weapon prog (without the USA getting antsy about it) allows them to keep their economy on a war footing (good for balancing the books) and generally keeps the population busy and enemies on their toes.

also after 3000 years of having the sh1t kicked out of them by , well, just about everyone, they probably enjoy a chance to have a scrap


well NIMN  ive been to israel while on holiday in cyprus , i had the opportunity to see first hand what the situation is like, most isaelites ive met are generally secular , very few are hasidic jew blacks coats etc, the arabs do live in isreal as well they seem ok to me , what ever the rights and wrongs of the state of israel some facts are indisputable , they had an empty land from thta they made it into an economic powerhouse of the middle east (the surounding states had the same resources give or take, yet they are backward poverty stricken and NO democracy ) and they are the ONLY true democracy in the area , and since the state of israel was created the arabs have been trying to destroy it from day one , the palestinian authority area soon squandered the money they received to establish palestinian infrastructure also yassar arafat ruled like autocratically NO democracy there
:mad:  I am agreat admirer of the Israeli fortitude and will to survive, as demonstrated in the third quarter of the last century.  

Their position now is morally untenable.  How you have the gall to state that they are the only true democracy in the area is stunning.  The situation in the eastern Med is akin to apartheid - pure and simple.  They have systematically dismantled the Palestinian authority and ensured that the extremeists within the Palestinian population have a steady supply of recruits who are willing to sacrifice everything.  Why can't the Israeli government recognise that every house they destroy, every tank on the street and every child that is murdered is far more effective than a recruiting Sergeant with a pocket full of dollars.

Of course this does not justify suicide bombs or attacks or jewish civilians, but nothing that has been done in the last two years by the Israeli state will solve the problem in the long term.

I could not in all good conscience, if called upon by the British Government, currently go and defend the state of Israel.  I would be willing to deploy in a peace enforcement role but I could never pin my colours to their flagpole.
If it's any consolation, Bagpuss, I understand that the Israelis are well capable of looking after themselves, and hence unlikely to call on an army they kicked out of their country in 1948 for assistance.  

I'm also 'uncut', BTW.
That's a bit strong!! I don't think we were kicked out of Palestinein ' ???48, withdrew in despair and exasperation perhaps but kicked out? Hardly.

ps I am "cut", but not because I'm a 4x2!
On holiday in Cyprus, yeah I hear the British armed forces have a Butlins camp there.
I suggest you go to this site. Read at your leisure with an open mind.   http://pilger.carlton.com/palestine

You have seen Israelis, spoken to them, but this doesnt justify what is STILL going on there, yes they have been persecuted for centuries, but you have to remember Palestinians have been displaced from their country to give the Israelis land, and people wonder why they arent quite happy with this.
America gives 25% on average of their foreign aid to Israel, they have unequivocally supported Israel in any military action they have taken, and for whatever cause, and this is what Arabs see.
What drives someone to strap explosives onto their body and then detonate it in a crowded public place, Desperation, Anger, many many things, but this is the way they can effectively hurt their enemies, and basically that is what they are. We have all seen children throwing stones at tanks, every one of these are potential Martyrs while ever these tanks destroy their homes, and kill their families and then see America supporting Israel doing this
"We were told back in 1991 that a reason not to invade Baghdad was the potential Arab unhappiness at seeing "American tanks in the streets of an Arab capital."

Given how things went in the intervening decade-plus in which American tanks were not seen in the streets of an Arab capital, I think it's safe to call that concern misplaced. " 8) ;D :p



NIMN things seems to be moving , it essential that there is dialogue and peace between the two as they both would benefit .

however i don't trust arafat he has already turned into a dictator and squandered all the money destined for the ordinary palestinians

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