End our speshul relationship with the US; and find a role

#1
Caught Tarzan on QT the other night saying 'there has never been a special relationship with the US' and 'we should stop kidding ourselves'; regrettably he's accurate.

As he pointed out the only nation the US has a speshul focus upon is Israel.

Chomsky pointed out in his book Interventions that the US didn't enter Iraq for national security reasons but in response to integrating power blocs; the Japanese, Chinese and Indians, the expanding and integrating EU. The ME is the US point of influence between a changing global landscape.

Our 60 year loyalty to this idea of the US's special friend is now more perverse than ever. Still agree with Acheson; 'Britain has lost an Empire and not found a role'.

We've never regained our confidence since that loss; our role should be as a confident friend of America. And prepared to wound that friend with our honesty and start telling them to return to democracy and away from imperial freebooting.

So what should be our role?:

- Britain's role should be as a progressive European nation (that is, to see our identity in these terms)
- A radically reduced monarchy (our insistence on continuity has slowed our infrastructure develop e.g. look at our transport system)
- Withdrawal immediately from Afghanistan (an independent security policy)
- Massive investment in science and education (R&D)
- PR (true social democracy)
- Expansion of University relationship with business (entrepreneurialism to the fore)
- Regional democracy (glocalisation)

What else?
 
#3
I have a couple of points.

1. the english speaking nations will always have a bond which goes beyond normal inter-state relationships. We are family. While I agree that this doesn't go to the point of 'special relationship', it still means something.

2. I agree we need to be in europe, but i strongly believe that that can only occur through a democratic process, unlike the current forced integration, against the will of the people.

3. We should have an independant conventional defence capability. brown has increased the social security budget to £189billion. To me this says we CAN afford an independantly capable military force, if there is the political will. Without that independant conventional capability, we have no business maintaining a nuclear capability, as it may become the first line of defence, rather than the last.
 
#5
It would be abit rich for the British to have a go at the Americans for "imperial freebooting." May aswell get the Germans to tell Iran not to threaten Israel or the French to show them how to win wars.
 
#7
We should get out of Europe,

Rebuild our industries,

Rebuild our Forces,

Rebuild our nation,

Reclaim our Empire.
 
#8
Remind me again what his specialty is - oh yes, linguistics.

so why should gob-on-a-stick be taken seriously in any other field?
 
#9
Remind me again what his specialty is.....

Talking out of his ar$e?
 
#10
Without having studied it, the change in Australia's relationships with Britain and the US-especially from 1940-1943- might make for an interesting comparison, if that's what interests you.

I just want to be fellated.
 
#14
We don't have a speshal relationship with the septics, we have a lapdog relationship with them. If they say jump our politicos say how high. They are only interested in themselves.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#15
We need to get off the US's t1t to be quite frank.

The Commonwealth is not a European construct, and nor does it belong to the US.

If we align ourselves with our own Commonwealth, and strengthen it through our trade links and diplomatically, we can be a bigger world player than we are now, whilst having more say with the US and the EU as a strong, independent nation.

For the last 60 years we have neglected to build and strengthen our ties with New Zealand, Australia, Canada and others. Imagine if we'd invested even 1/3rd of the energy into those commonwealth nations that we have in kissing America's arrse!
 
#16
Rebuild the Empire...? Do you people seriously propose occupations of India and half of Africa again? I realise this isn't Current Affairs but neither is it the NAAFI.

Do people think that Britain's position today is the result of dirty politicians stabbing us in the back, and if only we were led by virtuous upstanding 'decent folk' we'd be a world superpower? Hint: We've got 60 million people. Lots of countries around the world have a lot more. Back in the glory days, we had guns and they didn't, so it lasted for a few centuries or so. Now pretty much everybody's got firepower to some degree, so out goes that fanciful option.
 
#17
Grapevine said:
Rebuild the Empire...? Do you people seriously propose occupations of India and half of Africa again? I realise this isn't Current Affairs but neither is it the NAAFI.

Do people think that Britain's position today is the result of dirty politicians stabbing us in the back, and if only we were led by virtuous upstanding 'decent folk' we'd be a world superpower? Hint: We've got 60 million people. Lots of countries around the world have a lot more. Back in the glory days, we had guns and they didn't, so it lasted for a few centuries or so. Now pretty much everybody's got firepower to some degree, so out goes that fanciful option.
Oooh get her.
 
#19
We would achieve far more if we were to work on our relationship with our fellow European states. It wouldn't take much effort to become one of the dominant forces in the EU but we would need to commit ourselves to being part of Europe. Become dominant and a leading force in Europe and we can even out the playing field and gain far more advantage out of our association.

By all means strengthen ties throughout the Commonwealth but most members play on Britain's guilt to obtain what they want and have scant regard for us as a Nation.

Nothing can be gained by spreading ourselves so thinly on the world scene and we certainly gain nothing out of our very one-sided special relationship with the US. A relationship so special that our (?elected?) leader is refused access to Obama five times, hardly indicative of respect if you ask me, more a very emphatic reminder that we are there for the US benefit but not the other way round.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#20
Markintime said:
We would achieve far more if we were to work on our relationship with our fellow European states. It wouldn't take much effort to become one of the dominant forces in the EU but we would need to commit ourselves to being part of Europe. Become dominant and a leading force in Europe and we can even out the playing field and gain far more advantage out of our association.
We are never going to have the influence in the EU that we need or want. The EU was sewn up in favour of Germany and France before we joined, and that very sewing up was the reason we were denied access two or three times - they hadn't quite finished the stitching at the time.

Personally, we need a PM with the balls to say "Either sort out the stitch-up, sort out the French farming rip-off out, or we'll have a referendum and that means an inevitable bailing out, lock, stock and barrel.

Look at us now: Idiot gave away our rebate on the promise they'd sort out the fraud and subsidees - what happened? Nothing.

Anyone worth their salt would have said "Sort the problems out first, and then we'll give back some money" - but not Brown. How on earth can we lead in Europe with cretins like this 'fighting our corner'?

Markintime said:
By all means strengthen ties throughout the Commonwealth but most members play on Britain's guilt to obtain what they want and have scant regard for us as a Nation.
They used to have a good deal more regard, until we went sucking up to the EU and became America's lap-dog. If we concentrate a good deal of effort on our trading relationship and agreements with these nations, an awful lot of good can come of it - for all.

Markintime said:
Nothing can be gained by spreading ourselves so thinly on the world scene and we certainly gain nothing out of our very one-sided special relationship with the US. A relationship so special that our (?elected?) leader is refused access to Obama five times, hardly indicative of respect if you ask me, more a very emphatic reminder that we are there for the US benefit but not the other way round.
Agreed on the point about the US. I'd like to see the Commonwealth nurtured across the globe so that it can compete with the US, the EU and China.
 

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