Enclaves: Multiculturalism and Identity vs Diversity

There are many artificial divisions in society and these are reinforced by encouraging multiculturalism and a multitude of niche identities. Often, the term multiculturalism is used without realising it's connotations on what has hitherto been a diverse society, one in which citizens generally prefer inclusion to exclusion. The emphasis is increasingly upon difference and division, power grabs and exclusive rights, rather than integration and tolerance.

These issues extend beyond political parties, EU / non-EU immigration. Citizenship entailed both rights and responsibilities. At some point rights seem to have become more exclusive and responsibilities have shifted to authorities and any group that the mob of the day doesn't agree with. There is a long standing aim of some countries to subvert the West and to propagate such division and this needs to be resisted. I think Professor Darren Zook nails it when he refers to the enclave society.

From Margate to Molenbeek we must fight the enclave society

"Enclaves are the antithesis of diversity. The starting point of any campaign to promote diversity should be to tear down the walls protecting these enclaves, argues Professor Darren Zook."
From Margate to Molenbeek we must fight the enclave society
 
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There are many artificial divisions in society and these are reinforced by encouraging multiculturalism and a multitude of niche identities. Often, the term multiculturalism is used without realising it's connotations on what has hitherto been a diverse society, one in which citizens generally prefer inclusion to exclusion. The emphasis is increasingly upon difference and division, power grabs and exclusive rights, rather than integration and tolerance.

These issues extend beyond political parties, EU / non-EU immigration. Citizenship entailed both rights and responsibilities. At some point rights seem to have become more exclusive and responsibilities have shifted to authorities and any group that the mob of the day doesn't agree with. There is a long standing aim of some countries to subvert the West and to propagate such division and that this needs to be resisted. I think Professor Darren Zook nails it when he refers to the enclave society.

From Margate to Molenbeek we must fight the enclave society

"Enclaves are the antithesis of diversity. The starting point of any campaign to promote diversity should be to tear down the walls protecting these enclaves, argues Professor Darren Zook."
From Margate to Molenbeek we must fight the enclave society

Pah! and I get smited for good ol' anglo saxon swearing?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Odd, what was wrong with moving somewhere because it was better and raising your standards to those present?
 
Odd, what was wrong with moving somewhere because it was better and raising your standards to those present?
Even the Brits are terrible at that, look at the expats on the Costa Del Sol
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Even the Brits are terrible at that, look at the expats on the Costa Del Sol
Ive never been to Spain but the impression I get is that spain is a backward country with its hand out far too often, from friends I get the impression that (barring the growth of the English/Irish/insert pub on the costas) the influx of northern and western Europeans to Spain has forced them to improve standards considerably, plumbing is no longer pre Roman era standards.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Nothing wrong with that. The potential should be there.
Its not working though if the natives move out in droves because the immigrants are "ruining a nice community" does it?
Perception is everything!
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
There are constant complaints in many countries that the various nationalities make little or no effort to assimilate and instead retreat into their respective enclaves. No mention is made of the fact, by the way, that "the wealthy" do exactly the same.

What also remains unmentioned is that the formation of those enclaves was actually precipitated by the indigenous populations, who refused to allow other nationalities to integrate, but rather ostracised them as being "different". Integration is a two-way street. Folks may have immigrated with every intention of integrating, but it's also up to folks around them to allow them to do it.

It's small wonder that folks who moved to another country and found themselves being habitually insulted and abused gravitated to areas in which their "own folks" lived and where they were accepted, thus providing the building bricks of the later "enclaves".

MsG
 

goodoldboy

MIA
Book Reviewer
Ive never been to Spain but the impression I get is that spain is a backward country with its hand out far too often, from friends I get the impression that (barring the growth of the English/Irish/insert pub on the costas) the influx of northern and western Europeans to Spain has forced them to improve standards considerably, plumbing is no longer pre Roman era standards.
In some respects you are right but spend a weekend Madrid, Córdoba or Seville and then see how you feel about Spain.
 
There are constant complaints in many countries that the various nationalities make little or no effort to assimilate and instead retreat into their respective enclaves. No mention is made of the fact, by the way, that "the wealthy" do exactly the same.

What also remains unmentioned is that the formation of those enclaves was actually precipitated by the indigenous populations, who refused to allow other nationalities to integrate, but rather ostracised them as being "different". Integration is a two-way street. Folks may have immigrated with every intention of integrating, but it's also up to folks around them to allow them to do it.

It's small wonder that folks who moved to another country and found themselves being habitually insulted and abused gravitated to areas in which their "own folks" lived and where they were accepted, thus providing the building bricks of the later "enclaves".

MsG
That was definitely an issue in the 50's and 60's in the South East of England. Look at it now. The wealth argument is true for many celebrities who are not bound to perceived class structures other than their own celebrity class and because they can afford to live where they choose. The fact that a lot of them are wealthy socialists who prefer to avoid paying tax is ironic.
 
Ive never been to Spain but the impression I get is that spain is a backward country with its hand out far too often, from friends I get the impression that (barring the growth of the English/Irish/insert pub on the costas) the influx of northern and western Europeans to Spain has forced them to improve standards considerably, plumbing is no longer pre Roman era standards.
Spain is awesome! At least the places I've been to. Cities wise, Madrid and Barcelona are amazing with a ton of stuff to do and see. And the local food, drink and ladies are delish.
 
That was definitely an issue in the 50's and 60's in the South East of England. Look at it now. The wealth argument is true for many celebrities who are not bound to perceived class structures other than their own celebrity class and because they can afford to live where they choose. The fact that a lot of them are wealthy socialists who prefer to avoid paying tax is ironic.
North West London’s a good example of progressive immigration. Willesden and Harlesden once mainly Afro Carib areas with a good dose of county Cricklewood seem to have sold up as the areas become desirable and moved out towards Stanmore and Harrow.I’m selling a house in Hendon and my Indian neighbour remarked when his parents 1st moved in,in 1972 they were the new immigrants and today it’s the Eastern Europeans living in converted houses/flats and in some cases garden sheds whilst the Jewish overflow from Golders Green marches up through Finchley and into Mill Hill.Everythings always on the move.
 
Spain is awesome! At least the places I've been to. Cities wise, Madrid and Barcelona are amazing with a ton of stuff to do and see. And the local food, drink and ladies are delish.
Try Valencia. My second favourite city after Madrid (but not in the height of Summer).
One of the best aquariums in the world, a science and arts museum complex that'll take days to get around and, to cap it all off, a great beach area.
Looking round the market for a bottle of water and spotted Agua de Valencia and thought 8 euro for a litre jug of water's a bit expensive. Until you realise it is some concoction of sparkling wine, orange juice, vodka and gin,
 
Spain is awesome! At least the places I've been to. Cities wise, Madrid and Barcelona are amazing with a ton of stuff to do and see. And the local food, drink and ladies are delish.
Spend a vino-fuelled afternoon in Salamanca when the students are on a fancy dress event.........

Muchos muchos awesome-os.
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
That was definitely an issue in the 50's and 60's in the South East of England. Look at it now. The wealth argument is true for many celebrities who are not bound to perceived class structures other than their own celebrity class and because they can afford to live where they choose. The fact that a lot of them are wealthy socialists who prefer to avoid paying tax is ironic.
What's changed things more than anything else in the UK is that a couple of generations of mixed-nationality kids had the opportunity to attend school together and discovered that a different nationality or a different colour skin didn't make any difference in the grand scheme of things. Yet, even today, there's still a "sub-surface" racism in the country that bubbles up from time to time and serves political parties well when they want to divert attention from their own multitude of faults and incompetencies.

But it's not just in the UK. The Germans began inviting in "guest workers" in the 1950s because they needed to enlarge the workforce. While the first Italian was even presented with a moped as a publicity stunt, things began to go downhill very quickly. In West Berlin, where I lived from the middle of 1975 to the end of 1980, the so highly valued "guest workers" were pushed into the districts hard up against the Berlin Wall (Kreuzberg, Neukölln, Britz etc), because the "normal Germans" didn't want to live there. In fact, there more Turks lived in Kreuzberg than in Ankara, the capital of Turkey, at one stage. Believe it or not, it was official policy that they simply weren't allowed to rent accommodation in the "better" parts of West Berlin.

The situation was much the same in other German cities where there were many "guest workers" (mostly Turks, Yugoslavians and Italians). They were treated like absolute shit and constantly insulted and abused. And now the German authorities are seriously at a complete loss to explain just why they have an "Ausländerproblem", when they themselves were instrumental in creating it in the first place, just like the UK authorities did.

I also don't believe that the same authorities are really the right place to begin looking for a solution to the problem, because then they'd lose their primary scapegoats when they need excuses for their own political, financial and cultural mistakes.

MsG
 
Youi were doing fine, right up until the last paragraph.
 
Are people still sh1tting their pants about immigration?

Immigration has shown us that our way of life is attractive and people want to come here to support our state, live amongst us and have their kids grow up outside their own communities.

Most immigrants don't come here to sponge, avoid tax and avoid interacting positively with the state. There's a few caravan and cave dwelling examples of how it's done wrong but they're not typical.

Multiculturalism can be a good thing; it's important to have different views on how we live so that we can learn and progress. The amount of mixed marriages (in terms of race and religion) show that we live in a country that is at ease with it's multiculturalism, much unlike other countries.
 

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