Empty Cartrige cases: Controlled items in the UK

Piekey

Clanker
Next month I am flying to Scotland to stalk for a week. My mate has asked me to bring him some empty cases for him to reload.

They are not the same caliber as I have a visitors permit for in the UK.

I cannot from my interpretation of the UK firearms law define these case's as "ammunition".

Can anyone clarify where I stand legally , can I bring these into the UK without a permit to do so?

Attached for your interest is a picture of a Caribou buck I shot this Autum.
 

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Gone2ratshat

Old-Salt
Empty cases new or used are not a controlled item but good luck convincing an airline, chuck em in a jiffy bag for £5.00 postage if you think its worth it.

Edit - you haven't said where you are coming from , if its the US you need to confirm you can take ammunition components out of the country .
 
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Ding Dong!

Old-Salt
Next month I am flying to Scotland to stalk for a week. My mate has asked me to bring him some empty cases for him to reload.

They are not the same caliber as I have a visitors permit for in the UK.

I cannot from my interpretation of the UK firearms law define these case's as "ammunition".

Can anyone clarify where I stand legally , can I bring these into the UK without a permit to do so?

Attached for your interest is a picture of a Caribou buck I shot this Autum.
Nice stutzen.
 
Next month I am flying to Scotland to stalk for a week. My mate has asked me to bring him some empty cases for him to reload.

They are not the same caliber as I have a visitors permit for in the UK.

I cannot from my interpretation of the UK firearms law define these case's as "ammunition".

Can anyone clarify where I stand legally , can I bring these into the UK without a permit to do so?

Attached for your interest is a picture of a Caribou buck I shot this Autum.
I did not know that the Caribou are armed!!!!

Did he shoot back?
 
Empty cases new or used are not a controlled item but good luck convincing an airline, chuck em in a jiffy bag for £5.00 postage if you think its worth it.

Edit - you haven't said where you are coming from , if its the US you need to confirm you can take ammunition components out of the country .

If it's the US it's not a problem, I'm forever bringing back brass for my kid brother who also hand loads.

 
If it's the US it's not a problem, I'm forever bringing back brass for my kid brother who also hand loads.


Thats useful, ta for sharing that. I bet a 5 gallon bucket full would be over the top though.

I'm slowly gathering info in case we do end up moving to France, or Portugal.

I know I can take all my soft gear - holster, etc., reloading gear, but absolutely no firearm components, not even a screw off a sight without an export notification, or permission. Ten years pokey is not appealing.
 

Piekey

Clanker
Thats useful, ta for sharing that. I bet a 5 gallon bucket full would be over the top though.

I'm slowly gathering info in case we do end up moving to France, or Portugal.

I know I can take all my soft gear - holster, etc., reloading gear, but absolutely no firearm components, not even a screw off a sight without an export notification, or permission. Ten years pokey is not appealing.

When did they change the law? I thought it was only ITAR restricted stuff that was difficult to export.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Empty cases new or used are not a controlled item but good luck convincing an airline, chuck em in a jiffy bag for £5.00 postage if you think its worth it.

Edit - you haven't said where you are coming from , if its the US you need to confirm you can take ammunition components out of the country .
More likely to be lost in the post, put them in luggage destined for the hold and you should be fine, I’ve done it loads of times
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Thats useful, ta for sharing that. I bet a 5 gallon bucket full would be over the top though.

I'm slowly gathering info in case we do end up moving to France, or Portugal.

I know I can take all my soft gear - holster, etc., reloading gear, but absolutely no firearm components, not even a screw off a sight without an export notification, or permission. Ten years pokey is not appealing.
I know a US citizen who lived here, had a slot on his certificate for a rifle, went stateside, bought a rifle, added it to his fac and brought it back as hold luggage!
No problems at all
For info about France @clayp1g may have recent info on clubs etc
 

Gone2ratshat

Old-Salt
More likely to be lost in the post, put them in luggage destined for the hold and you should be fine, I’ve done it loads of times
The irony of getting brass from the states is it`s currently cheaper in the UK due to the US shortages , the shortages haven't quite hit us here yet but I think they will , certain primers are now proving difficult to find in the UK and theres next to no US made ammo with UK distributors.
 
The irony of getting brass from the states is it`s currently cheaper in the UK due to the US shortages , the shortages haven't quite hit us here yet but I think they will , certain primers are now proving difficult to find in the UK and theres next to no US made ammo with UK distributors.

A lot of people hand load ammunition but a lot of people still buy commercial stuff as well. Go to any shooting range and there will be bins full of brass. Hell I haven't bought brass in years. Even my 6.5 Grendel runs on resized 7.62x39 brass and my 8mm Mauser runs on cut down and sized 30-06 brass.
 
When did they change the law? I thought it was only ITAR restricted stuff that was difficult to export.

Firearms, and any component for a firearm, including the little bit of red fibre optic plastic you put in your frontsight is an ITAR item. In some cases even knowledge and expertise is classed as ITAR controlled and needs the appropriate state department paperwork for an individual to work with non-US citizens, or for a non-US citizen to work in a US owned/located lab/research/production facility involved in work classified as ITAR.

I know a US citizen who lived here, had a slot on his certificate for a rifle, went stateside, bought a rifle, added it to his fac and brought it back as hold luggage!
No problems at all
For info about France @clayp1g may have recent info on clubs etc

Ta for the pointer to @clayp1g .

The export of items is not as easy as you may have been led to believe. Here is a stupid example: I cannot export any magazines with a capacity of greater than 10 rounds. Yet in France, Germany, and Portugal I can buy exactly the same magazines as I cannot personally export from the US - without a folder full of paperwork. Even for sporting rifles you need to jump through the ITAR hoops and find a friendly ITAR approved exporter who will rip you off. Temporary exports are a tad simpler, but not much. I would suspect the chap you mentioned did a temporary export and simply hoped there would be no issues down the line - which to be honest there probably wont be 'cos their admin is in no way joined up, or efficient, it is too large and cumbersome. For a look at a website that is designed for online submissions which looks like it was designed and built as a GCSE school project go and look at the ATF.

Added to which, by the time I have flown over, settled, got permission to bring my stuff over, then flown back to the US to arrange the export, paid for the export paperwork, and shipping, it will be cheaper, and easier to just sell, then buy to replace.
 
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Gone2ratshat

Old-Salt
A lot of people hand load ammunition but a lot of people still buy commercial stuff as well. Go to any shooting range and there will be bins full of brass. Hell I haven't bought brass in years. Even my 6.5 Grendel runs on resized 7.62x39 brass and my 8mm Mauser runs on cut down and sized 30-06 brass.
Random brass is okay for non too serious shooting and at shorter ranges, no use for long range precision.
 
Firearms, and any component for a firearm, including the little bit of red fibre optic plastic you put in your frontsight is an ITAR item. In some cases even knowledge and expertise is classed as ITAR controlled and needs the appropriate state department paperwork for an individual to work with non-US citizens, or for a non-US citizen to work in a US owned/located lab/research/production facility involved in work classified as ITAR.

@Effendi, from this I understand that I, in Australia, who wants to order a specific rifle stock from a company in California, has to wait until that company obtains an export permit/licence/whatever before they can produce the said rifle stock. I am currently waiting for a rifle stock from a Californian company and could not understand why they were quoting such a long waiting time. Now I understand. Thank you.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
@Effendi, from this I understand that I, in Australia, who wants to order a specific rifle stock from a company in California, has to wait until that company obtains an export permit/licence/whatever before they can produce the said rifle stock. I am currently waiting for a rifle stock from a Californian company and could not understand why they were quoting such a long waiting time. Now I understand. Thank you.
Boyds told me if it’s a two piece stock with a value over $100 then they legally ship in one parcel but declared as two separate items!
Boyds were pretty good at getting around the rules!
For Dies I tend to go to Redding who charge a lot but deliver on their promises

I’ve lost two packets of fired brass en route to die manufacturers despite declaring them! I’m sure it’s our post office that impounds them
 
The cases thing is a bit confusing in France.
There's currently four categories for all firearms & components which are A,B,C & D.

Cases usually fall into the last three.
B tends to be certain pistol calibers & long arms, military usually but it's not set in stone.
C covers most hunting calibers with some weird ones which are or were military.
D is collectibles so certain old west cartridges and odd ball stuff they couldn't decide where to put it, you can just buy that without anything, proof of age maybe. Gets a bit confusing around the obsolete pistols and rifles, it's on age (mostly) but even that isn't always the case.

Catégorie B, Requires both a sport shooting or hunting licence and your authorisation for the firearm to purchase the brass.

Catégorie C, Usually requires just your sport shooting licence to buy the brass but in some instances it can require both if you calibre falls into both Catégories. As an example, .45 Colt.

A good trick would be to have a quick look on www.naturabuy.fr and pop into the search bar 'Eléments de rechargement de Catégorie B' and or 'C' and you'll get an idea of what can be bought.

Of course I'm just a shooter, not an expert on Frog gun laws and most of what I know is based on what I have in my cabinets, you just drop into line with renewals and buying things so I get outdated on my info. But I have kinda got the general gist of the new ABCD category system...although I still think in the old 8 category system which was probably a bit more tricky.
 
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Firearms, and any component for a firearm, including the little bit of red fibre optic plastic you put in your frontsight is an ITAR item. In some cases even knowledge and expertise is classed as ITAR controlled and needs the appropriate state department paperwork for an individual to work with non-US citizens, or for a non-US citizen to work in a US owned/located lab/research/production facility involved in work classified as ITAR.



Ta for the pointer to @clayp1g .

The export of items is not as easy as you may have been led to believe. Here is a stupid example: I cannot export any magazines with a capacity of greater than 10 rounds. Yet in France, Germany, and Portugal I can buy exactly the same magazines as I cannot personally export from the US - without a folder full of paperwork. Even for sporting rifles you need to jump through the ITAR hoops and find a friendly ITAR approved exporter who will rip you off. Temporary exports are a tad simpler, but not much. I would suspect the chap you mentioned did a temporary export and simply hoped there would be no issues down the line - which to be honest there probably wont be 'cos their admin is in no way joined up, or efficient, it is too large and cumbersome. For a look at a website that is designed for online submissions which looks like it was designed and built as a GCSE school project go and look at the ATF.

Added to which, by the time I have flown over, settled, got permission to bring my stuff over, then flown back to the US to arrange the export, paid for the export paperwork, and shipping, it will be cheaper, and easier to just sell, then buy to replace.
Yers , that's because the definition of what is and what isn't a "component" differs from place to place. They never have harmonised. We had all kinds of problems with "inert" stuff that collectors bought on Portobello road, in terms of were they properly inert. Switched on security don't particularly like anything remotely shaped like a round
 
@Effendi, from this I understand that I, in Australia, who wants to order a specific rifle stock from a company in California, has to wait until that company obtains an export permit/licence/whatever before they can produce the said rifle stock. I am currently waiting for a rifle stock from a Californian company and could not understand why they were quoting such a long waiting time. Now I understand. Thank you.

Apparently it costs $2500 to buy the annual exporters licence from the govt. Companies who export enough to make it worthwhile will buy the licence, send someone to learn about doing the ITAR returns and set about selling their products overseas. Just because they have the licence does not mean they can willy nilly export stuff. I understand they still need to submit paperwork to the State Dept. and receive authorisation.

Just to give you an indication of administrative time scales: i was checking the ATF online information last week and it indicated that after submitting paperwork you should expect a minimum of 6 weeks before response. Federal admin is far king useless.
 
A lot of people hand load ammunition but a lot of people still buy commercial stuff as well. Go to any shooting range and there will be bins full of brass. Hell I haven't bought brass in years. Even my 6.5 Grendel runs on resized 7.62x39 brass and my 8mm Mauser runs on cut down and sized 30-06 brass.

I think I bought a thousand rounds to kick off when I moved here. Now I have three five gallon buckets full of brass for reloading that I picked up on the range. And those three bucket fulls were picked up on one range in a couple of months, as and when.

I’m not a rifle shooter, but I see blokes shooting rifle using top end ammo and just binning the cases when fired.
 

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