Employment Law

[WO2.Ghandi]

It's not hard to imagine the shouty manager had had a bollocking over the matter and was trying to get back at her, just bounce him back to the human resources posse. Industrial tribunals are actually pretty big on staff being accompanied at disciplinary meetings, and "Mackenzie Friends" are a well established concept generally. Clearly it's up to her to choose who accompanies her, not the management.

I don't think you can blame her employer for what her colleagues do out of work hours, unless there's a suggestion they are responsible for giving away her phone number. The police should be taking the lead, until some facts are established it would be hard for the employer to do anything without the consent & cooperation of the employee affected.

 

[Jerrycan2793]

She has raised concerns about bullying in work. The suicidal lad despite being the final straw its not really the main issue. He appears to be just as much a victim of the same bullies as her

The management have it appears decided that it is to do with work as they are apparently initiating disciplinary proceedings against him over it.

The police update was the suicidal lad voluntarily went for an assessment and is now out of their hands with a warning that sending people pictures threatening to kill himself isn't nice so police involvement as far as I am aware is over.


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[WO2.Ghandi]

Ok, I obviously was a bit wide of the mark. I suppose a lot will depend on what interpretation your lass put on the knife threat. If she's not making a complaint to the police and allowing them to treat as a report of a person at risk then it'd be harder for the pub goons to make a scapegoat of him. She needs to sit and record the specifics of the bullying in as much detail as possible. It sounds like Suicidal Sid will be making a statement if he's going to put up a fight over his job, hopefully they'll corroborate, but there should be no possible suggestion that they collaborated.

 

[Tinman74]

As Joker has previously stated your fortunate to be able to communicate with her employer.

No company would in there right minds allow a third party to be involved in there interal grievance - disciplinary procedures.

Either this is "mate" is yourself or its a wah!


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[FrosteeMARIA]

It's a bit of a loophole that was created when ACAS guidelines changed regarding accompaniment to formal meetings.

Recognised TU rep
TU official
Worker

Whereby "worker" has been interpreted to mean pretty much anyone, and not necessarily working for the same employer!

It is, however, entirely dependant on what is stated in the company policy and procedure, and this must take precedence. ACAS only gives guidelines and there are no statutory requirements regarding these kind of meetings or investigations (although following best practice isn't a bad idea!) Any tribunal that may follow would look first to see that internal procedure had been followed to the letter - but TU solicitors would do this anyway prior to taking a case forward. This is the primary responsibility of the person accompanying - to ensure that procedure is being adhered to.

 

[Jerrycan2793]

Neither,

The grievance procedure is non contractual so I am not sure quite how they could refuse my house mates request to have me as her witness. they have since the first meeting when my house mate and I decided it was not impartial decided I would not be able to attend (which I am not unhappy about to be fair)

ACAS guidelines do suggest as above, Reading ACAS guidelines it can be a colleague, union rep or family member/friend if the circumstances dictate it.

Given she was complaining about a bullying culture in the bar there are no staff she is willing to trust especially given the fact she is trying to prevent rumours spreading at the same time.

She was not a member of a trade union at that point (she rang One yesterday and is now a member they have also been fantastic and our sending someone out for the meeting take two I think the union she joined is GMB)

Which left them the choice of her mother (an exceptionally angry woman who is over protective of her daughter) or me someone who has tried to stay objective. The company and my housemate decided I was the better option for various reasons and I was asked by house mate to attend.

I did some research and tried to act appropriately but in hindsight I should have declined and pushed her towards a union.

As for statements corroborating I have met a few people who work with my housemate at social events including suicidal Sid in passing and it always seems to be the same people mentioned in conversation for causing problems so hopefully that will tally up.

I think the main problem they are facing is a lack of leadership, from what I gather the pub manager is very young and also new in role. A lot of the issues leading to the event could have been dealt with more efficiently. The manager for example the day after the police involvement sent my house mate a text message along the lines of can you cover a shift at work tomorrow. No thought of is she was ok.





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[FrosteeMARIA]

Be aware though - I don't know if this is the case for ALL unions, but normally before you can receive any free legal assistance (should it be deemed necessary - tribunal, etc.) you usually have to have 6 months membership behind you, and have been a member at the time the incidents took place. You still get the same help from reps and full time officials though.

 

[Jerrycan2793]

Thanks, she will find out today about that. hopefully this will become academic for me now as I will have no involvement other than the sidelines so again thank you everyone for your input.

I do find this sort of thing interesting especially considering the big company is trying to use brute force to push and intimidate through the problem with senior managers shouting to get their own way. I think (though I may be wrong) that the HR team understood the situation and the potential risk it poses. as such they have really tried to deal with this swiftly and amicably.

The management however seem to be on a different page.

 

[jarrod248]

When this get so soured with an employer it never is right again, often they'll find a reason to use a disciplinary reason, then the staff go off sick, then they discipline for sickness then the staff leave anyway. Cut out the hassle, tell her to go get another job.

 

[Jerrycan2793]

When this get so soured with an employer it never is right again, often they'll find a reason to use a disciplinary reason, then the staff go off sick, then they discipline for sickness then the staff leave anyway. Cut out the hassle, tell her to go get another job.

I think that is going to be the outcome, it would be nice to see her get an apology though


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[Arte_et_Marte]

Jerrycan, why couldn't she have resigned and claim Constructive dismissal? She was in employment before 6th April this year and therefore only needs to have been an employee for one year before claiming, which you say she has been, not the two years it now is.

Having said that, she would have had to have resigned at the earliest opportunity, and not keep hanging on at work moaning.

 

[jarrod248]

Jerrycan, why couldn't she have resigned and claim Constructive dismissal? She was in employment before 6th April this year and therefore only needs to have been an employee for one year before claiming, which you say she has been, not the two years it now is.

Having said that, she would have had to have resigned at the earliest opportunity, and not keep hanging on at work moaning.

Difficult to prove, loads of messing about. Really not worth it.

 

[jarrod248]

I think that is going to be the outcome, it would be nice to see her get an apology though


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Hmm good luck with a meaningless apology.

 

[Jerrycan2793]

Jerrycan, why couldn't she have resigned and claim Constructive dismissal? She was in employment before 6th April this year and therefore only needs to have been an employee for one year before claiming, which you say she has been, not the two years it now is.

Having said that, she would have had to have resigned at the earliest opportunity, and not keep hanging on at work moaning.

Initially she wanted to continue working there and has tried to resolve it, I was unaware of that change in constructive dismissal.

I think her resignation will be the outcome.


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[The_Duke]

I look forward to reading all about it in the FT - "barmaid resigns in a huff. Major pub chain makes grovelling apology"

 

[Badger_Heed]

I've copied the original post and e mailed the content to every major pub chain in the country - just to keep them in the loop.

 

[LEFTY478]

I will be visiting random pubs this weekend and liberally berating the management for their callousness, on your friend's behalf. She should expect to receive an apology by next Wednesday at the latest. Probably.

IHTH?