Employing ex servicemen abroad - Help required

[NigG]

I currently recruit into the defence sector and I am frustrated by employers refusing to look at ex servicemen due to lack of commercial experience. I have an idea which I think will fly, but I need constructive criticism and possibly a business partner.

The situation
1. The U.K economy is on its arrse
2. Job seekers have saturated the market and there is a lack of permanent jobs available

The solution (As I see it)
1. There is a skills shortage for tradesmen in areas such as Australia and the UAE countries.
2. There is a steady source of professional, security vetted, trained individuals leaving the armed forces every day.
(So basic supply and demand stuff)

I have contacts within the Career transition group, in Dubai, Qatar (recruitment based) and I have negotiated a rate drop with a relocation organisation (Providing I use them as a preferred supplier), but this leads me on to

The Problem
1. Relocation costs ££££ at least a couple of Grand. In order to make the business feasible and to make money the relocation part would have to be self funded.
2. In addition to this as I have limited military experience (only being in the TA). I think it would be beneficial to have someone with more kudos in military circles to have as a representative/business partner.

Questions
1. Do you think that self funded relocation is feasible?
2. Is anyone interested exploring this further?
3. Any other questions or comments, anything constructive is really appreciated.

Thanks

 

[JonnoJonno]

I currently recruit into the defence sector and I am frustrated by employers refusing to look at ex servicemen due to lack of commercial experience.

Hi, do you have any evidence to illustrate that employers in Australia, and UAE etc have a different attitude to servicemen's apparent 'lack of commercial experience'?

The economic difficulties in the UK are to be found globally. In your opinion are other countries (especially countries like Dubai) in a position to stabilise their markets quicker than UK? If they are not, is there a case to suggest that soldiers would be best using the relocation money they would spend moving abroad in sitting out the storm, and awaiting the jobs to open up within the UK?

 

[mysteron]

NigG,

The relocation element will always be a challenge as emigrating as your rightly point out is a costly business.

Is it not possible that the successful candidate has relocation costs offset against agreed milestone deliverables and the company fund relocation in lieu of initial bonusing? (say for first 3 quarters and then cash bonus final quarter - low value? or if no bonusing structure, then reduced rate of pay for first 12 months with agreed pay rise in 2nd year written into contract). That would, if done properly, would reduce the amount paid out by the company and assist the employee.

Also, why not seek out ex-mil people that have left in the last 3 years, currently work in Defence sector retaining SC or DV status and therefore have got some private sector experience?

 

[NigG]

I currently recruit into the defence sector and I am frustrated by employers refusing to look at ex servicemen due to lack of commercial experience.

The economic difficulties in the UK are to be found globally. In your opinion are other countries (especially countries like Dubai) in a position to stabilise their markets quicker than UK? If they are not, is there a case to suggest that soldiers would be best using the relocation money they would spend moving abroad in sitting out the storm, and awaiting the jobs to open up within the UK?

You raise a good point and obviously this would have to be viewed on a case by case basis. This would obviously depend on the skills that a serviceman was leaving with and the market requirement.

I believe that the countries mentioned have a considerable requirement within infrastructre development, not required in the UK.

 

[NigG]

NigG,

The relocation element will always be a challenge as emigrating as your rightly point out is a costly business.

Is it not possible that the successful candidate has relocation costs offset against agreed milestone deliverables and the company fund relocation in lieu of initial bonusing? (say for first 3 quarters and then cash bonus final quarter - low value? or if no bonusing structure, then reduced rate of pay for first 12 months with agreed pay rise in 2nd year written into contract). That would, if done properly, would reduce the amount paid out by the company and assist the employee.

Also, why not seek out ex-mil people that have left in the last 3 years, currently work in Defence sector retaining SC or DV status and therefore have got some private sector experience?

A good idea. I do have a genuine desire to help out ex servicemen, but at the same time this needs to be a viable business. In the current climbate I can't see an employer forking out for relocation and agency fees. With this in mind your idea of an initial salary cap is a good one, however cost of living would need to figure in somewhere as well.

Thanks food for thought.

The problem I have with you last point is that security clearance will lapse after 6mnths if not in a cleared job. There are a lot of people on the market with clearance that has lapsed or is due to very soon. Also if they are in work at the moment I think they would be more likely to want to hold onto a stable job.

 

[mysteron]

NigG - do not forget that all businesses are looking at work force reductions to meet these unprecedented economic times (in my business alone we have reduced our workforce significantly and they were all SC or above).

There is huge competition for jobs - so you hold the cards here and people will be willing to negotiate. Nobody will say no to be interviewed and have a salary / compensation negotiation. What is the worst they can do - say no thanks I will stick with my current job?

I know that many are always looking for a new opportunity. Do not underestimate that.

 

[JonnoJonno]

Any views on my first quetion NigG?

Do you have any evidence to illustrate that employers in Australia, and UAE etc have a different attitude to servicemen's apparent 'lack of commercial experience'?

 

[NigG]

Any views on my first quetion NigG?

Do you have any evidence to illustrate that employers in Australia, and UAE etc have a different attitude to servicemen's apparent 'lack of commercial experience'?

Sorry Pal didn't mean to ignore your question.

In all honesty my recruitment experience is solely based with private defence companies. With these organizations they often require experience with specific or bespoke systems which ex-servicemen wouldn't have had exposure to (this is what I mean by commercial experience)

My idea (and apologies, I don't think I made this clear) was to focus on all business sectors for re settlement i.e. infrastructure, public sector, etc. I believe that there are more openings abroad than in the UK for this type of role. Also with these areas I don't believe that there is the emphasis on specific technologies that there is in defence.

 

[NigG]

NigG - do not forget that all businesses are looking at work force reductions to meet these unprecedented economic times (in my business alone we have reduced our workforce significantly and they were all SC or above).

There is huge competition for jobs - so you hold the cards here and people will be willing to negotiate. Nobody will say no to be interviewed and have a salary / compensation negotiation. What is the worst they can do - say no thanks I will stick with my current job?

I know that many are always looking for a new opportunity. Do not underestimate that.

I agree with what you are saying, however I wanted to focus on supporting service leavers purely because I believe they have valuable skills that could be utilised abroad. In addition to this the market is flat here in the UK and I don't really have the jobs to fill.

 

[mysteron]

I agree with what you are saying, however I wanted to focus on supporting service leavers purely because I believe they have valuable skills that could be utilised abroad. In addition to this the market is flat here in the UK and I don't really have the jobs to fill.

So are you saying that you don't want to support ex-forces people that have gone out and got a bit of the commercial experience that you say you need?

That does seem rather at odds with your original statement.

 

[NigG]

I agree with what you are saying, however I wanted to focus on supporting service leavers purely because I believe they have valuable skills that could be utilised abroad. In addition to this the market is flat here in the UK and I don't really have the jobs to fill.

So are you saying that you don't want to support ex-forces people that have gone out and got a bit of the commercial experience that you say you need?

That does seem rather at odds with your original statement.

No, absolutely not if someone has left the forces and has gone on to specialise then I would suggest that there is even more value in representing them.

What I think is important though is that there are a lot of people leaving the services who also have fantastic skills, but have difficulty in integrating back into civilian employment, especially in the UK.

I don't see any point in disregarding individuals so long as they can are capable of doing the job.

 

[bombdr2494]

The problem I have with you last point is that security clearance will lapse after 6mnths if not in a cleared job.

Not entirely true, after asking my employment consultant from the rfea the same thing he replied. "that is bollocks, it doesnt lapse per se, you can fill out the 1109 forms and as long as the company is x listed it will be reinstated pdq"

 

[NigG]

This is true mainly for permanent work, however contract is different. Many companies need you to hit the ground running and can't afford the time to reinstate your clearance.

We have loads of software positions at the moment for a large defence organisation and they won't accept anyone whose clearance has lapsed.

 

[Pantsoff]

NigG a "tradesman" in the UAE say a plumber will cost me all in from India AED 2500 a month (or £416 @ 6AED to the £) a UK guy would want a hell of a lot more!

I would price myself right out of the market using western tradesman.

 

[msr]

1. There is a skills shortage for tradesmen in areas such as Australia and the UAE countries.

I think I can see a flaw in your plan: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6716543.ece

msr

 

[Alsacien]

1. There is a skills shortage for tradesmen in areas such as Australia and the UAE countries.

I think I can see a flaw in your plan: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6716543.ece

msr

Interesting article.
Loved this description of Dubai:
"a vast architectural experiment conducted by, seemingly, Albert Speer and Victoria Beckham"

 

[NigG]

I think I can see a flaw in your plan: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6716543.

Brilliant article and food for thought, thanks very much for the info.

I particularly liked this quote;

“Anyway despite all of this you still disrespect our cultural and religious values with your behaviour, dress and conduct in our malls and on our beaches and comments about us our race and our religion. You spend all your time critizising [sic] our laws, society and systems. Yet, you could never have the lifestyle you have here back in your system. You people are no longer welcome, please go and pollute somewhere else.”

Looks like the shoe is on the other foot now, not very nice is it when people come into your country and criticize everything is it? Ha Ha