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Employer Support

#1
I've just heard that one of the lads who deployed with 32SRG as part of OP TOSCA (and had to fight for his job on his return when they tried to sack him) has had a letter basically telling him that he has to choose between the TA and his job because they are withdrawing what (little) support they had for him.

Nothing unusual there I hear you say, and indeed I'm sad to say it isn't, but the thing which really gets my pip is that he works for a company who has made a lot of money from the MoD (they have the contract to supply all the Combat Power Tools to the Army).

In America, I believe any company who does not support its employees attanding National Guard training have the government crawling all over them (IRS audits, withdrawn contracts etc).

About time the TA had some better support from the Government, who expect the TA to come runing when called.

Any other stories about shitty employers?
 
#2
I got a letter on Herrick 9 saying 'Sorry you no longer want to work for us - P45 enclosed.'

I'd not mentioned to them any intention to leave and thought it was a bit out of order, until I found out there was another 10'000 staff who 'no longer wanted to work for them.'

Luckily it was a shoite job. FTRS here we come - hopefully.
 
H

Hedphelym

Guest
#4
A friend of mine at my current unit works on a farm, and his house is included as kind of a package deal. When he joined up a little over a year ago, his boss took started to give him a hard time and acting like a bit of ****.
Now he is currently at Chilwell for Herrick 11, and his boss has to my knowledge basically sacked him and he has had to find another place to live for his wife and 3 kids while he is on tour.
I'm not sure on the exact specifics of it, I know there was some contact with Sabre about it but thats the situation from what he tells me.
Pretty shitty really.
 
#5
Employer support? What's that then? :x
I've got none whatsoever and i live in a garrison town like many others so you would of thought there would be some.
They can't wait until i go on tour just so they can sack me despite having Sabre and lawyer support.
 
#7
I work for Her Majesty's Prison Service. Although there's loads of people in the TA who work for the TA, the official line is that as an operational prison officer or Governor who would "be required to remain in your post at times of national emergency", I'm not allowed to be in the TA.

It's in the staff handbook in black and white. Great support from a Government employer.
 
#8
The sad truth is that there is no effective employment protection in law. The Army and SABRE mean well but they have no budget or authority to do anything but talk.

And as the economy continues to suffer, firms get nearer and nearer the edge, the prospect of suffering a significant financial hit because the current government refuses to fund the Regular Army to meet peacetime standing tasks becomes less and less attractive.

You should also understand that if a company with a contract with the MoD fails to deliver then they will be penalised as a result; if they fail to deliver as their staff are on a tour they will still be penalised.

This is why I react so strongly to those who suggest the existing policy that TA soldiers only put themselves forward for mobilisation with the explicit consent of their employers should be "worked around"; the soldier suffers.

If you want to keep your job, Family, Work, TA. If that includes a tour as well then good for you. If you want a tour then get your boss on side, find a new boss or go regular.
 
#9
I agree that times for employers is difficuly, but in the case I mentioned it's not some tin-pot machine shop where one man having an additional three days annual leave will send it under.
The company in question is a major concern, and the TA soldier in question wanted three days unpaid leave on top of his holiday entitlement to attend camp next year!

Getting the balance is difficult, one employer loved the TA and gave me additional paid leave, before that, one employer gave me nothing and I, like many others, had to sacrafice family holidays to go away for a couple of weeks every year training.

Personally I've just got back to work after a 10 month HM Armed Forces funded "holiday" (as my co-workers see it), to find that my workplace has changed massively and I have been forced to take a job far removed from the one I left or face possible redundancy.

I'm sure I'm not alone in any of the above, but this is not about me - the point is that if the Government consider us to be the vital part of the nations army that they say we are, surely we should be better protected against discrimination.

Not the best analogy, but consider maternaty leave. Women cannot be penalised for taking it, and they cannot be discriminated against when applying for jobs on the grounds that they may become pregnant, and watch out any employer who does either.
Now consider the TA soldier, who takes roughly the same time off when mobilised, is penalised for going, and is less likely to get a job if they admit to being in the TA in the first place.

At least I get to whine on the internet at lunchtime! :roll:
 
#11
Oh, regarding the maternity leave analogy - we don't get maternity pay, and the company get cash to locate a stand-in!

P.S.
My stand-in is staying on in my original job, hence the role change - go figure.....
 
#12
One_of_the_strange said:
The sad truth is that there is no effective employment protection in law. The Army and SABRE mean well but they have no budget or authority to do anything but talk.

And as the economy continues to suffer, firms get nearer and nearer the edge, the prospect of suffering a significant financial hit because the current government refuses to fund the Regular Army to meet peacetime standing tasks becomes less and less attractive.

You should also understand that if a company with a contract with the MoD fails to deliver then they will be penalised as a result; if they fail to deliver as their staff are on a tour they will still be penalised.

This is why I react so strongly to those who suggest the existing policy that TA soldiers only put themselves forward for mobilisation with the explicit consent of their employers should be "worked around"; the soldier suffers.

If you want to keep your job, Family, Work, TA. If that includes a tour as well then good for you. If you want a tour then get your boss on side, find a new boss or go regular.
Spot on (again)
 
#13
spider056 said:
I agree that times for employers is difficuly, but in the case I mentioned it's not some tin-pot machine shop where one man having an additional three days annual leave will send it under.
The company in question is a major concern, and the TA soldier in question wanted three days unpaid leave on top of his holiday entitlement to attend camp next year!

Getting the balance is difficult, one employer loved the TA and gave me additional paid leave, before that, one employer gave me nothing and I, like many others, had to sacrafice family holidays to go away for a couple of weeks every year training.

Personally I've just got back to work after a 10 month HM Armed Forces funded "holiday" (as my co-workers see it), to find that my workplace has changed massively and I have been forced to take a job far removed from the one I left or face possible redundancy.

I'm sure I'm not alone in any of the above, but this is not about me - the point is that if the Government consider us to be the vital part of the nations army that they say we are, surely we should be better protected against discrimination.

Not the best analogy, but consider maternaty leave. Women cannot be penalised for taking it, and they cannot be discriminated against when applying for jobs on the grounds that they may become pregnant, and watch out any employer who does either.
Now consider the TA soldier, who takes roughly the same time off when mobilised, is penalised for going, and is less likely to get a job if they admit to being in the TA in the first place.

At least I get to whine on the internet at lunchtime! :roll:
Surely SaBRE and the Reserve Forces Act came to your rescue?

No?

There's a shock. Perhaps it's because the RFA is no use in protecting your employment and SaBRE - bless them- have no teeth (ironic really!).
 
#14
Wingletang said:
There's a shock. Perhaps it's because the RFA is no use in protecting your employment and SaBRE - bless them- have no teeth (ironic really!).
Perhaps it is because employers fork out f**kloads of cash in taxes to pay for a standing army and have a better understanding of what a 'reserve' is than do the MOD.

msr
 
T

Tremaine

Guest
#15
Whatever their reasons, employers accused of sacking TA employees
should think about the direct consequences of their actions, on the soldiers and their families. Homelessness and or unemployment is not funny, whilst a soldier is deployed or not.

Supporting Britain's Reservists and Employers (SaBRE) is a national campaign - not an organisation. It provides Reservists and their employers with support in a number of areas including general advice to employers and Reservists. Information on everything from a Reservist's training obligations to an employer's legal rights and responsibilities, and the benefits of employing Reservists. It also has contacts for employers and reservists at a regional level who can help with specific enquiries. If you are not sure about anything ask your Unit Employer Support Officer (called a Regimental Operations Support Officer in some cases) or alternatively contact the SaBRE helpline.0800 389 5459 website: http://www.sabre.mod.uk/

The Service Personnel and Veterans Agency have local caseworkers in some areas.

There is an online guide for the families of mobilised members of the Territorial Army and the Regular Reserve:
http://www.army.mod.uk/documents/general/families_guide_for_ta.pdf

** edited once for missing words . And refrained from swearing 8)
 
#16
Tremaine said:
Whatever their reasons, employers accused of sacking TA employees
should think about the direct consequences of their actions, on the soldiers and their families. Homelessness and or unemployment is not funny, whilst a soldier is deployed or not.

Supporting Britain's Reservists and Employers (SaBRE) is a national campaign - not an organisation. It provides Reservists and their employers with support in a number of areas including general advice to employers and Reservists. Information on everything from a Reservist's training obligations to an employer's legal rights and responsibilities, and the benefits of employing Reservists. It also has contacts for employers and reservists at a regional level who can help with specific enquiries. If you are not sure about anything ask your Unit Employer Support Officer (called a Regimental Operations Support Officer in some cases) or alternatively contact the SaBRE helpline.0800 389 5459 website: http://www.sabre.mod.uk/

The Service Personnel and Veterans Agency have local caseworkers in some areas.

There is an online guide for the families of mobilised members of the Territorial Army and the Regular Reserve:
http://www.army.mod.uk/documents/general/families_guide_for_ta.pdf

** edited once for missing words . And refrained from swearing 8)
I've been made redundant three times in my career - none of which had anything to do with the TA. It happens, particularly these days.

I did resign and extend my mobilised service as redundancies were looming, and let's face it, proving you can be dispensed with for a while is hardly going to help your case to be kept on in preference to someone who isn't prone to sudden bursts of absence. Maybe I was paranoid, maybe not.

And that's the problem, these days redundancy is about how many go, not about targeting individuals. Someone is going to get their life wrecked regardless and I don't see how being in the TA should make me stay while the chap I sit opposite to goes instead.

But that's not what we're talking about is it; the facts are that being in the TA lands your employer with a real financial liability - the existing arrangements do not even come close to covering costs. Add to that some of the least effective employment law on the books and it is no surprise that some businesses seek to lose those in the TA in preference to those who are not, all other things being equal.

And I know what their advice to the recently unemployed will be; if you like being in the Army so much and want to go on tour in peacetime then join the Regulars, it's what they're there for. If you want to work for me don't ask for time off short of a proper war.

Edited to add:

SABRE can't do a damn thing to help; they have no money, no legal support and no real arguments to support the contention that losing employees at short notice for a year positively improves the bottom line. It's not a dig at them personally, I know they work hard and produce a mean leaflet and drinks reception.
 
T

Tremaine

Guest
#17
I don't back the employers one bit. They have responsibilities, not least to those who get off their backsides or are sent to war. spider056 makes some good points in their post. If Guv wants soldiers to mobilise for duties it should do more to protect them from unscrupulous employers. There's plenty of cases going back years, and employers have even been fined under law, for sacking TA soldiers who've been out in Iraq or Afghanistan. In my book these employers are grade one cnuts. If employers also bothered to find out what's available to them ref financial assistance and support , then sackings, homelessness and family problems when serving might be alleviated.

There are rogue employers out there as everyone knows, and reservists should have the legal protection they deserve.
 
#19
msr said:
Tremaine said:
There's plenty of cases going back years, and employers have even been fined under law, for sacking TA soldiers who've been out in Iraq or Afghanistan.
Links please.

msr
Do SaBRE have mind bending drugs available for their supporters?

The links won't help - as the fines were pathetic. Faced with a fine of minimal proportions (less than £10k) as compare to the cost of carrying an employee in whom they have lost faith - only loyal non expeditionary ones required please - then it's a no brainer. This also assumes that the case even gets to court which also takes years.

It's a non discussion - as SaBRE is nothing but a nice facade to pretend that RFA is working.
 
#20
I know of at least three people (including myself) who have been told in no uncertain terms that they would not be given a job while they were in the TA - try that with a woman or a minority!
At the time, I was able to offer my services elsewhere - times were better and I was in a relatively good job anyway - but now things are very different in the employemnt market.

Joining the regs is not always an option, personally I'm well past my "start-again" date, but given the chance I'd FTRS tomorrow.

I fully understand the current financial conditions (it was part of my old job to know these things), and I can see the management issues that deployment causes, but so does maternity leave, and as I said earlier, woe betide any employer who targets women of child-bearing age.

We really need a government who supports its army, regular and reserve, but in this country I cannot ever see that happening.

No, my card is marked but given the choice I would choose staying in the TA everytime (stupid huh?)
 

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