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ELBOW PADS

#1
Just got back from my annual pilgrimage to Bisley and have the usual classic case of Bisley elbow. Have tried moleskin but it doesn't quite work. Thinking of buying some Viper pads to wear under my jacket; are they any good?
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#2
Watcher said:
Just got back from my annual pilgrimage to Bisley and have the usual classic case of Bisley elbow. Have tried moleskin but it doesn't quite work. Thinking of buying some Viper pads to wear under my jacket; are they any good?
Dunno, I use a 1mtr long copper pipe soft foam insulating tube cut into 10cm lengths and held in place by an old sports sock with the foot bit cut off.....works perfectly, each 10cm piece lasts about 4-5 shoots (circa 10hrs).
 
#3
Are you a service rifle shooter? do they need to be beneath clothing. If not then the builders knee pads are pretty good. foam or rubber, elasticated straps no where near the price of proper elbow pads.
 
#5
For civvy target shooting you want to avoid the pads with a hard outer plastic shell as these can cause your elbows to rock, preventing you from maintaining a stable firing position.

I now use the Blackhawk neoprene pads and they seem to work very well. However, I'm not a TR shooter, so I wear these outside my jacket.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#6
I used to have (and probably still do in my Tardis like garage) a pair of the old softish elbow pads for small bore riflemen to wear outside their non padded coats on on bare arms in summer. Yours if I can find them!
 
#7
I use one of the under body armour shirts, just replaced the elbow padding with some sleeping mat. Lets you move and is nice and light.
Works a treat.
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#8
Watcher said:
Its for TR; I have a shooting jacket with all the rubber grip surface etc. so I need them to go underneath.
Try my option - it will cost you 2 quid and an old sock.

ISSF rules ban any sort of padding in addition to what is allowed under clothing regulations, I chipped my elbow as a kid and had to find any invisible way to avoid the suffering...
 
#9
Watcher said:
Its for TR; I have a shooting jacket with all the rubber grip surface etc. so I need them to go underneath.
Alternatively, get a shooting mat with the maximum legal amount of padding (50mm). It's far easier to add the padding outside the jacket than inside. Out of curiosity, was this the grass firing points of Century, or the concrete of the Cooper range?

Secondly, you could have a play with your firing position; you may find that there's a way that you can place your elbow to avoid trapping nerves etc.

Your handy hint for next Bisley is:
* Find the HPS tent (probably near Fultons)
* Ask Robert (bearded bloke selling things). He's used to training for multiple hours a day in prone, and has competed and coached internationally, so he should be able to help you...
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#10
Gravelbelly said:
Watcher said:
Its for TR; I have a shooting jacket with all the rubber grip surface etc. so I need them to go underneath.
Alternatively, get a shooting mat with the maximum legal amount of padding (50mm). It's far easier to add the padding outside the jacket than inside. Out of curiosity, was this the grass firing points of Century, or the concrete of the Cooper range?

Secondly, you could have a play with your firing position; you may find that there's a way that you can place your elbow to avoid trapping nerves etc.

Your handy hint for next Bisley is:
* Find the HPS tent (probably near Fultons)
* Ask Robert (bearded bloke selling things). He's used to training for multiple hours a day in prone, and has competed and coached internationally, so he should be able to help you...
Mats are only legal in UK I believe.....I have a Kurt Thune one that is brilliant, but never been allowed to use it anywhere in DE or FR....
 
#11
Alsacien said:
Mats are only legal in UK I believe.....I have a Kurt Thune one that is brilliant, but never been allowed to use it anywhere in DE or FR....
ISSF rules allow mats (that 50mm mximum depth is the ISSF ruling); but if mats are provided by the competition organisers, you have to use the issued ones.

It's just a difference in culture - in the UK, they're seen as personal kit, in Europe they're seen as part of the range fixtures and fittings (with the result that they're either old and battered, or rugged rather than comfortable).

Even at top European ranges like Munich or Milan, you find coir matting or similar (much like a very big doormat). Cheap, and doesn't wear out - but rather prickly.
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#12
Gravelbelly said:
Alsacien said:
Mats are only legal in UK I believe.....I have a Kurt Thune one that is brilliant, but never been allowed to use it anywhere in DE or FR....
ISSF rules allow mats (that 50mm mximum depth is the ISSF ruling); but if mats are provided by the competition organisers, you have to use the issued ones.

It's just a difference in culture - in the UK, they're seen as personal kit, in Europe they're seen as part of the range fixtures and fittings (with the result that they're either old and battered, or rugged rather than comfortable).

Even at top European ranges like Munich or Milan, you find coir matting or similar (much like a very big doormat). Cheap, and doesn't wear out - but rather prickly.
I shoot off them a lot.
These bits of the ISSF rules apply I think:

7.4.7.1.2 The use of any special devices means or garments which
immobilize or unduly reduce the movement of the shooter's legs,
body or arms are prohibited in order to ensure that the performance
skills of the shooters are not artificially improved by special clothing.
7.4.7.2 All shooting jackets, shooting trousers and shooting gloves must be
made of flexible material that does not materially change its physical
characteristics, that is, become stiffer, thicker or harder, under
commonly accepted shooting conditions. All lining, padding and
reinforcements must meet the same specifications. Any lining or
padding must not be quilted, cross-stitched, glued or otherwise
affixed to the outer clothing layer other than at normal tailoring
points. All lining or padding must be measured as a part of the
clothing.

and:

7.4.7.12.4 Shooting Mats
The use of private mats is prohibited.

There are no regs applying to what the range must provide as far as I know......
 
#14
In short order I had a day at Altcar then a couple of days on Stickledown then two on Century. I have a 'normal' shooting mat of the type most often seen in the UK, bought in the NSRA. It has some padding and some rather deep grip material on the foremost 1/4.

Ugly - your offer is very kind but hold fire until I can chew over the sound advice I'm getting here.
 
#16
Alsacien said:
There are no regs applying to what the range must provide as far as I know......
You need some form of padding beyond that on your clothing; the ban on private mats is just to indicate "use the provided ones". The 50m range at Bisley has a stack of Kurt Thune mats that were used for the 2002 Commonwealth Games. Wolf Creek had similar.

The worst I've used were a rather thin rug in Delhi, and a sheet of thick yellow felt in Plzen (I was picking yellow fibres out of anything remotely rough for weeks afterwards)...

It's not such a problem at a competition venue, because it's entirely likely you'll only get a one-hour practice session the day before your match, and the hour and a quarter of the match itself. Your elbows take the real pounding during the months of training beforehand, when mats are perfectly allowable...
 
#17
Watcher said:
In short order I had a day at Altcar then a couple of days on Stickledown then two on Century. I have a 'normal' shooting mat of the type most often seen in the UK, bought in the NSRA. It has some padding and some rather deep grip material on the foremost 1/4.
It sounds like you've got almost as good as you're going to get in kit terms; so I'm guessing it's a positional problem; namely, you've got a fairly "classic" prone position.

One of the problems with that classic TR position is that because you're trying to avoid canting the rifle, you're evenly balanced over both elbows, and you find that you lie on the points of your elbows (=sore).

Try moving the weight of the rifle to the left, so that it's only an inch or two to the right of the left elbow (assuming you're right-handed). You'll find yourself leaning your left elbow over to the left, and you'll find a flat patch which spreads the weight out. The right elbow then goes from being "support" to being more "stability", and carries a lot less weight. This should lessen the pain dramatically, but it may mean that your position becomes more angled...

The test of whether the position is balanced is to reach forward with your right hand, and put it over your left hand. If you're balanced, your abdominal muscles shouldn't be holding you up, and you should still be pointing at the target. Now (without dropping your elbow) slide your right hand back to the pistol grip, still staying in balance (and still pointing at the target); then lower the right elbow. Do not just allow the upper body to just fall to the right until the right elbow hits the ground...
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#18
Gravelbelly said:
Alsacien said:
There are no regs applying to what the range must provide as far as I know......
You need some form of padding beyond that on your clothing; the ban on private mats is just to indicate "use the provided ones". The 50m range at Bisley has a stack of Kurt Thune mats that were used for the 2002 Commonwealth Games. Wolf Creek had similar.

The worst I've used were a rather thin rug in Delhi, and a sheet of thick yellow felt in Plzen (I was picking yellow fibres out of anything remotely rough for weeks afterwards)...

It's not such a problem at a competition venue, because it's entirely likely you'll only get a one-hour practice session the day before your match, and the hour and a quarter of the match itself. Your elbows take the real pounding during the months of training beforehand, when mats are perfectly allowable...
I am finding a huge variation, coconut mats I am used to - no problem once you master the extra height, but all sorts of shit turns up in some ranges and I cannot shoot off a piece of moving, 5mm, foam backed carpet or a cushion 8O .... shot 396/ex400 at a competition last week, a personal best - off my Thune mat!
 
#20
Been wondering what to do over this problem for some time. Saw this thread and a shaft of light suddenly entered my office!

Here goes. I am shooting service rifle and have always suffered with my elbows at competitions (always qualified for Bisley but never managed to attend for a variety of reasons :evil: ).

I was told that NO padding was allowed but others have said this is not the case. I have a pair of 'hard' assault pads but believe that these would probably cause more problems than they solve (as already stated above). So my questions are:

a) are pads of any sort allowed in the service rifle (infantry) shoots?
b) if they are, what are the thickness and material restrictions
c) No one has mentioned the 'gel' mouse mat material which I have been looking at with deep thought as a possible ideal material (if allowed). Thoughts?

Thanks :)
 

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