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Effect of AWOL and detention on notice to terminate period

#1
When a soldier has given his 12 months notice to terminate and is then AWOL for some months of his notice period, does:

a. His notice continue to run and he can be discharged at the 12 month point - having returned and completed his sentence; or

b. He have to actually serve 12 months ie not including the AWOL and sentence time.

Been asked to find the answer, but can't remember where the reference is.

Who is the PAM expert out there with the reference at the fingertips??

Thanks
 

Auld-Yin

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#2
9.414 said:
When a soldier has given his 12 months notice to terminate and is then AWOL for some months of his notice period, does:

a. His notice continue to run and he can be discharged at the 12 month point - having returned and completed his sentence; or

b. He have to actually serve 12 months ie not including the AWOL and sentence time.

Been asked to find the answer, but can't remember where the reference is.

Who is the PAM expert out there with the reference at the fingertips??

Thanks
Don't know what the rules are now but in the dark and hazy past when someone went AWOL (or even a day late back = same thing) then they lost pay by virtue of "The Royal Warrant". The slimest book in the services. Fair do's if you aint at work you don't get paid. So when the 22 year point comes up WO2 XXX has to sign on for 1 or as many days lost through the Royal Wrrant to get their pension.

Nowadays all it takes is a good human rights lawyer (oxymoron I know, but....). WMF might be free.
 
#3
For clarification, he is terminating service by giving his 12 months notice after serving 5 years.

He is not having to make up forfeited service etc for pension purposes. He has been AWOL and done detention during the period of notice, so there is no loss of pay etc to worry about - just what day he should be let go!
 

Auld-Yin

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#4
9.414 said:
For clarification, he is terminating service by giving his 12 months notice after serving 5 years.

He is not having to make up forfeited service etc for pension purposes. He has been AWOL and done detention during the period of notice, so there is no loss of pay etc to worry about - just what day he should be let go!
I'm sorry. Obviously things have changed. he has been AWOL, done a spell in either the Unit gr=uardroom or Colly and has been PAID for these episodes? Times have certainly changed!

My point, poorly put I admit, is that he gave 12 months notice and, should the army want it, then they should get 12 months work - not periods of absence or jail time.

However, as your 'friend' seems to be a waste of army resources then he should be emptied as soon as possible with the least amount of resource spent on him (other than that which the PC Brigade demand:cry: )
 
#5
Time in detention does not count towards Colour service. What ever sentence your mate was awarded, the days served are added to his release date. ie if he gave his notice on 01 Jan 07 he was awarded 28 Days detention, served 23 days with remission his release date from the forces would be 23 Jan 08.
 
#6
Can you point me at the right regulation/ rule?

Whilst that is the way i am thinking it should apply, i dont want to give wrong advice and the soldier being kept in longer than he should and being able to get me sued for giving wrong advice.

Ta
 
#7
I would look in either the AA, QR's or Army I&D regs or speek directly to APC Glasgow for Guidance. The exact paragraphs escape me currently but certainly time in detention does not count as colour service according to the I&D rules that govern Military Detention.
 
#8
Contact your Bde Legal Rep (normally an SO2) or your HQ Legal Branch for the Chapter and Verse, as far as I can remember, no one can be discharged with pending discipline against them and you would have to defer his dischage date until case heard and if proven, sentence carried out. Once sentence served he would have to complete the ballance of his 12 monthe RECKONABLE service, periods of AWOL and Detention are not RECKONABLE. alternatvly, contact DM(A) and speak to SO3 Discharges to seak an early discharge authority for this chap (DM(A) will want an AF B 130 A from the Unit), once he has finished his sentence and you have an early release authority it's bye bye.
 
#9
i am grateful for responses but they are missing the narrow point i am seeking the answer to.

If he was pending discipline he could and would be held in under s13 of AA1955, and if he needed additional service he could apply under AGAI for extension for non reckonable service to make up to pension point etc. Non of these types of things are relevant, as he is leaving well before his 12 year res grant etc.

My original point was precise. During his 12 months notice he was
AWOL and did detention (both non reckoning for pension, and forfeited pay under RW etc) he is now coming up to the 12 months point in calendar terms and i cant find the definitive answer so thought i would ask here!!

He is not an AFB130 case as he is on notice to leave, and is close to the last date.

QR's say he has to give 12 months notice - which he nearly has, not that he has to serve 12 months reckonable service after giving notice.

Dont ask me to contact Glasgow, i did and am still awaiting a response.

Have tried QR's, AGAI, looked at the old PAM, tried to find something on the JPA

if you know the relevant regulation please let me know...
HELP :?: :?
 
#10
Pose the question to legal, as he signed a contract to serve to his runout date. They should give you a definitive answer and any references.





Daz
 
#11
Assuming that you don't want him to stay on for any particular reason I would be surprised if DM(A) would quibble over specific dates esp if the period of absence and sentence is relatively small. Submit the application as normal with a covering letter, DM(A) will tell you what date he needs to be discharged by.
 
#12
Gun_Empty said:
Assuming that you don't want him to stay on for any particular reason I would be surprised if DM(A) would quibble over specific dates esp if the period of absence and sentence is relatively small. Submit the application as normal with a covering letter, DM(A) will tell you what date he needs to be discharged by.
9.414, exactly what he said, DM(A) can waiver the 12 month notice and provide a discharge date earlier than his expected ROD, extra service required or not, negating any issue as detailed by you in your posts, the application being an AF B 130 A.
 
#13
Thanks for the help so far. Still waiting for Glasgow to reply. :lol:

Will check the legal end. Thanks.

Its not that the unit want rid of him and therefore want to initiate AFB 130 to get rid early, he is a bayonet who can stag on! The soldier is fast approaching the 12 month leaving date from original notice so need to find if he should be released on that day or be compelled to do enough additional reckonable service to make up the shortfall.

Serious responeses with the regulation if you know it please ..... enough people have already given me their opinion of him - and not just here from Arrse contributors :roll: .

Just want to avoid ME being turned over for getting it wrong
 

Auld-Yin

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#14
9.414 said:
Thanks for the help so far. Still waiting for Glasgow to reply. :lol:

Will check the legal end. Thanks.

Its not that the unit want rid of him and therefore want to initiate AFB 130 to get rid early, he is a bayonet who can stag on! The soldier is fast approaching the 12 month leaving date from original notice so need to find if he should be released on that day or be compelled to do enough additional reckonable service to make up the shortfall.

Serious responeses with the regulation if you know it please ..... enough people have already given me their opinion of him - and not just here from Arrse contributors :roll: .

Just want to avoid ME being turned over for getting it wrong
You have to be taking the p!ss now.

OK he is able to carry out duties if he is kept on. But what duties? The ones he wants to do :?: What are you going to do if he says "feck that, I want this weekend off" - sack him :?

You have gone well beyond the realms of Regulations. Get rid of the cnut (or yourself) before he contaminates the rest.
 
#15
Auld-Yin said:
...You have to be taking the p!ss now. .....You have gone well beyond the realms of Regulations. Get rid of the cnut (or yourself) before he contaminates the rest.
This is your third response telling me to get rid of him, and like i said i have plenty of advice on that field already thanks.

The soldier is not any bother, he has done the crime and the time. Perhaps you can put that bit of history aside for a while.

He is entitled to go on his due date and will serve until then, I want to establish how i calculate that date. The problem is to satisfy the heirarchy of the correct date that he should go. There appear to be two different ways of calculating it, strict calendar dates or reckonable service. Like i said, i dont want to be criticised at the end for getting it wrong.

Harding taking the p!ss when there are some knowledgeable contributors here who regularly come up with the goods. Unfortunately Glasgow have not yet helped. I cant believe that this has never been worked out before and is not covered in a rule or regulation somewhere.
 
#16
If he has served 4 yrs or more he goes on original discharge date,if not then he has to make up time spent awol and in detention.



hope that helps
Daz
 
#17
diane_41 said:
If he has served 4 yrs or more he goes on original discharge date,if not then he has to make up time spent awol and in detention
That is very helpful and is a new twist on what i had thought. Can you point me to the reference, as i know i am going to be asked to prove my point. Thanks
 
#19
The following may be what you're looking for: JSP 754 Ch3 Sect12 Art 05

Forfeiture and Suspension of Pay

03.1305. The pay (as defined in 03.1304) of an officer or OR will be suspended or forfeit in the following instances:
...
f. From the 8th day of unauthorised absence, at which point the individual will be declared as a Long-Term Illegal Absentee. The forfeiture should be applied retrospectively to the beginning of the unauthorised absence.


Time when pay is not in issue is not Reckonable Service and is therefore not counted towards time served.
 
#20
I've had a look at QR's, and its silence on the matter implies to me that time spent AWOL / in detention WOULD count towards the notice period ie it only says that a soldier must give 12 months notice. It does not say anything about the notice period being extended due to non reckonable service, nor does it say a soldier must serve a minimum of X prior to transfer to the reserve - it just says he must serve Y before he can give the 12 months notice.

This makes sense from the Army's point of view ie if you go AWOL it will make sure you serve your period of detention before you go, but its not going to extend your contract - what would be the point?

This also ties in with the fact that at the end of your 22 years you have to apply to extend your service to make up any NRS the Army does not automatically allow you to!

I could be wrong on this, but I can't see anywhere that it says about extending notice periods!
 

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