education, education, education!

#1
channel hopping today, i came across a few minutes of "big brother". an apparently irish young man, alongside an apparently asian young woman, opened a dialogue with a black couple in a caravan, comparing them to romeo and juliet. in answer to the question "who're they, then?" the irish/asian pair tried to explain that shakespeare was a world famous english playwright, that romeo and juliet was one of his most famous works, and gave a short but accurate summary of the plot. to which our sarf landan friend replied " so this shakespeare geezer, he's famous for what? never heard of him"..... only in blair's britain eh?
 
#3
Like they'd have heard of Dire Straits!

The worst thing is; they'll have been offered every opportunity whilst at school. They'll have done Shakespeare, but paid so little attention they now don't have a clue.

It's not the education system as such, it's the chav fcukwits going through it
 
#4
Crabby, isn't is a basic human right in Bliar & Broons Britain for chavscum to be thick as sh1t?

If they were "ejookated", they might get upset at what the politico's are doing to our country and have a nervous breakdown, thereby overloading the meagre resources NHS - it makes perfect (political) sense!
 
#5
rockape34 said:
If they were "ejookated", they might get upset at what the politico's are doing to our country and have a nervous breakdown, thereby overloading the meagre resources NHS - it makes perfect (political) sense!
More to the point, if they were educated, they wouldn't be facing a lifetime on benefits so they might be less inclined to vote Labour.
 
#6
On Radio 4's Today programme this morning, an organisation called the Teacher's Support Network contended that architects are to blame for poor education, as the way school buildings are designed makes it too hard for them to teach effectively.

Their followed a discussion with some lefty 'educationalist' who suggested that school buildings are responsible for truancy, because more attractive buildings would 'engage' pupils and make them want to come to school.

Clearly the concept of teachers and parents accepting responsibility for their actions, and those of the young creatures in their charge, is outmoded. It's enough to make you weep...
 
#7
ViroBono said:
On Radio 4's Today programme this morning, an organisation called the Teacher's Support Network contended that architects are to blame for poor education, as the way school buildings are designed makes it too hard for them to teach effectively.

Their followed a discussion with some lefty 'educationalist' who suggested that school buildings are responsible for truancy, because more attractive buildings would 'engage' pupils and make them want to come to school.

Clearly the concept of teachers and parents accepting responsibility for their actions, and those of the young creatures in their charge, is outmoded. It's enough to make you weep...
You try teaching a class of 30 in a mobile classroom. My last classroom was absolutely awful. It would reach over 35 inside on a sunny day (hate to think what it'd be like in July) and yet would be freezing cold in winter.

Take a class that is "challenging" in a poor classroom and put them in a larger classroom with gaps between the desks (so sitting in pairs, or ability to move desks for group work), a data projector to make things interesting and space for wall displays and suddenly that class becomes a pleasure to teach. I can verify that, as I'd teach one class 2 lessons in my mobile, and then 2 lessons in a better room. Narrow corridors means more pushing, shoving, arguing and they're harder to calm down before they come in the classroom.

Bad school buildings have a big impact on the learning of pupils - but so does the provision of resources (videos, projectors, textbooks) and, as you quite rightly said parental responsibility.

If any of you have problems with the way us teachers are doing our jobs then I suggest you arrange a couple of days visiting a secondary school. You may see then the challenges that teachers face. Teachers accept responsibility for some of the actions of pupils, we're not perfect, but parents and even more importantly the pupils need to accept responsibility.

Case 1. Pupil throws acid in face of another pupil (unnamed pupils at unnamed school). That pupil is excluded for three days, but the parents don't want him at home so send him to school, so the school has to keep him there outside the office of the head. Who's to blame? (A teacher tries their best to watch all 30 in a class, but if one decides to go for the bottles of acid and throw at their classmates there is bugger all you can do about it).

Stop blaming the current education system, if you don't work in it you don't have a fcuking clue quite honestly. As I said, you want an idea then go arrange a visit.
 
#8
crabby said:
ViroBono said:
On Radio 4's Today programme this morning, an organisation called the Teacher's Support Network contended that architects are to blame for poor education, as the way school buildings are designed makes it too hard for them to teach effectively.

Their followed a discussion with some lefty 'educationalist' who suggested that school buildings are responsible for truancy, because more attractive buildings would 'engage' pupils and make them want to come to school.

Clearly the concept of teachers and parents accepting responsibility for their actions, and those of the young creatures in their charge, is outmoded. It's enough to make you weep...
You try teaching a class of 30 in a mobile classroom. My last classroom was absolutely awful. It would reach over 35 inside on a sunny day (hate to think what it'd be like in July) and yet would be freezing cold in winter.

Take a class that is "challenging" in a poor classroom and put them in a larger classroom with gaps between the desks (so sitting in pairs, or ability to move desks for group work), a data projector to make things interesting and space for wall displays and suddenly that class becomes a pleasure to teach. I can verify that, as I'd teach one class 2 lessons in my mobile, and then 2 lessons in a better room. Narrow corridors means more pushing, shoving, arguing and they're harder to calm down before they come in the classroom.

Bad school buildings have a big impact on the learning of pupils - but so does the provision of resources (videos, projectors, textbooks) and, as you quite rightly said parental responsibility.

If any of you have problems with the way us teachers are doing our jobs then I suggest you arrange a couple of days visiting a secondary school. You may see then the challenges that teachers face. Teachers accept responsibility for some of the actions of pupils, we're not perfect, but parents and even more importantly the pupils need to accept responsibility.

Case 1. Pupil throws acid in face of another pupil (unnamed pupils at unnamed school). That pupil is excluded for three days, but the parents don't want him at home so send him to school, so the school has to keep him there outside the office of the head. Who's to blame? (A teacher tries their best to watch all 30 in a class, but if one decides to go for the bottles of acid and throw at their classmates there is bugger all you can do about it).

Stop blaming the current education system, if you don't work in it you don't have a fcuking clue quite honestly. As I said, you want an idea then go arrange a visit.
Get off your horse. He wasn't blaming the teachers, he was blaming the lefty 'educationalist' " I thought???
Or are these lefty 'educationalist's the teachers?
 
#9
EX_REME said:
Get off your horse. He wasn't blaming the teachers, he was blaming the lefty 'educationalist' " I thought???
Or are these lefty 'educationalist's the teachers?
ViroBono said:
On Radio 4's Today programme this morning, an organisation called the Teacher's Support Network contended that architects are to blame for poor education, as the way school buildings are designed makes it too hard for them to teach effectively.

Their followed a discussion with some lefty 'educationalist' who suggested that school buildings are responsible for truancy, because more attractive buildings would 'engage' pupils and make them want to come to school.

Clearly the concept of teachers and parents accepting responsibility for their actions, and those of the young creatures in their charge, is outmoded. It's enough to make you weep...
I would take that as a dig at Teachers. Also the suggestion that our teaching space has no influence on our pupils, which I believe strongly is not the case (as do 89% of teachers questionned), lays blame on our professionalism.
 
#10
crabby said:
Case 1. Pupil throws acid in face of another pupil (unnamed pupils at unnamed school). That pupil is excluded for three days,
WTF

I don't think even the Krays did that in their 1960s gangland debt enforcer days.

When I was at school you got expelled permanently for swearing. Not swearing at a teacher - just swearing. Whet do you need to do to get expelled these days?

Were the police called? Surely an acid attack is GBH. How do the parents of the victim, now known as Scarface, feel about this?

When Mrs A_M was a teacher she told me that if a kid is expelled, the school loses funding for two kids. Is that still the case?
 
#11
crabby said:
EX_REME said:
Get off your horse. He wasn't blaming the teachers, he was blaming the lefty 'educationalist' " I thought???
Or are these lefty 'educationalist's the teachers?
ViroBono said:
On Radio 4's Today programme this morning, an organisation called the Teacher's Support Network contended that architects are to blame for poor education, as the way school buildings are designed makes it too hard for them to teach effectively.

Their followed a discussion with some lefty 'educationalist' who suggested that school buildings are responsible for truancy, because more attractive buildings would 'engage' pupils and make them want to come to school.

Clearly the concept of teachers and parents accepting responsibility for their actions, and those of the young creatures in their charge, is outmoded. It's enough to make you weep...
I would take that as a dig at Teachers. Also the suggestion that our teaching space has no influence on our pupils, which I believe strongly is not the case (as do 89% of teachers questionned), lays blame on our professionalism.
Of course it has an influence, but is it "responsible for truancy, because more attractive buildings would 'engage' pupils and make them want to come to school"?
 
#12
EX_REME said:
crabby said:
EX_REME said:
Get off your horse. He wasn't blaming the teachers, he was blaming the lefty 'educationalist' " I thought???
Or are these lefty 'educationalist's the teachers?
ViroBono said:
On Radio 4's Today programme this morning, an organisation called the Teacher's Support Network contended that architects are to blame for poor education, as the way school buildings are designed makes it too hard for them to teach effectively.

Their followed a discussion with some lefty 'educationalist' who suggested that school buildings are responsible for truancy, because more attractive buildings would 'engage' pupils and make them want to come to school.

Clearly the concept of teachers and parents accepting responsibility for their actions, and those of the young creatures in their charge, is outmoded. It's enough to make you weep...
I would take that as a dig at Teachers. Also the suggestion that our teaching space has no influence on our pupils, which I believe strongly is not the case (as do 89% of teachers questionned), lays blame on our professionalism.
Of course it has an influence, but is it "responsible for truancy, because more attractive buildings would 'engage' pupils and make them want to come to school"?
In a roundabout way.

Basically, if a pupil has more respect for their learning place, if they are in an atmosphere that has been improved because the buildings are better than they may be more inclined to come to school.

Will it solve truancy? No. There are other ways that would have a far greater influence. Is it part of the answer to raising standards of education in this country? I think yes.
 

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#13
Crabby, I take your point, and applaud it, but other comments have been viable too.
You will be aware that there was a whole trend a few years ago to the scheme of teaching best described as 'fanciful'.
I refer in particular to the school fo thought that subscribed to the belief that if you surround a pupil with books, they will learn to read; by an osmosis process.

This was a fanciful notion and really was just an excuse for idle teachers to avoid their duties.
I have no down on teachers, as my wife and daughters are such creatures, and damned good ones too. But by association with them, I meet a broad spectrum of others who fall short of being adequate.

Yes, I do agree that the appropriate accomodation is important, and ergonomics do play a part, but dedication, hard work, and a hearty sense of humour do help.

My family are wholly employed in the special needs sector, with mrs being head of a school for EBD youngsters, at which younger daughter also teaches. A hard furrow to plough, but I wonder if it is harder than other daughter who is engaged in teaching severly disabled youngsters.
 
#14
Ancient_Mariner said:
crabby said:
Case 1. Pupil throws acid in face of another pupil (unnamed pupils at unnamed school). That pupil is excluded for three days,
WTF

I don't think even the Krays did that in their 1960s gangland debt enforcer days.

When I was at school you got expelled permanently for swearing. Not swearing at a teacher - just swearing. Whet do you need to do to get expelled these days?

Were the police called? Surely an acid attack is GBH. How do the parents of the victim, now known as Scarface, feel about this?

When Mrs A_M was a teacher she told me that if a kid is expelled, the school loses funding for two kids. Is that still the case?
Tell me about it...

The acid was luckily not of a strength to cause damage, so there were not affects on the victim. However, there was no way that the pupil involved knew this when he threw the acid.

Permentantly expelled for swearing... that'd be about 30% of kids out instantly. They still only get excluded for swearing at teachers. A teaching friend had a year 10 pupil tell him "fcuk off you fcuking faggot cnut" and the pupil got two days... One of my pupils when excluded for violence (filmed and posted on the internet) was taken shopping by her mum on one of her exlusion days.

It's a nightmare. Society needs ways to deal with this. Kids need to be straightened out now, and fast. Parents need to be partly responsible.

To expell a kid... drug dealing tends to be the only way to get rid of most of them nowadays. Even if they are violent it is hard to expell (if they are classed as having behavioural problems as a special educational need then they are classed as having a disability, you can not expell someone for their disability).

I'm lucky, I've not yet been sworn at.

The labour government have done some good things with education; there's more money, a greater emphasis on inclusion and although Teaching Assistants are generally a poor substitute for more teachers and more teaching space they are normally a help in the classroom. However, there's still not enough money after the Thatcher period of painful underfunding, teachers are NOT protected from false pupil claims as they should be and society is on the slide, making the job of classroom management more one of crowd control.
 
#15
crabby said:
EX_REME said:
crabby said:
EX_REME said:
Get off your horse. He wasn't blaming the teachers, he was blaming the lefty 'educationalist' " I thought???
Or are these lefty 'educationalist's the teachers?
ViroBono said:
On Radio 4's Today programme this morning, an organisation called the Teacher's Support Network contended that architects are to blame for poor education, as the way school buildings are designed makes it too hard for them to teach effectively.

Their followed a discussion with some lefty 'educationalist' who suggested that school buildings are responsible for truancy, because more attractive buildings would 'engage' pupils and make them want to come to school.

Clearly the concept of teachers and parents accepting responsibility for their actions, and those of the young creatures in their charge, is outmoded. It's enough to make you weep...
I would take that as a dig at Teachers. Also the suggestion that our teaching space has no influence on our pupils, which I believe strongly is not the case (as do 89% of teachers questionned), lays blame on our professionalism.
Of course it has an influence, but is it "responsible for truancy, because more attractive buildings would 'engage' pupils and make them want to come to school"?
In a roundabout way.

Basically, if a pupil has more respect for their learning place, if they are in an atmosphere that has been improved because the buildings are better than they may be more inclined to come to school.

Will it solve truancy? No. There are other ways that would have a far greater influence. Is it part of the answer to raising standards of education in this country? I think yes.
What????

Right so:-

1. It has an influnce - agreed.
2. It will not stop truancy - agreed.

Thought that was what I said.
 
#16
Bring back the cane! I'm only saying that because I wont be on the recieving end.

The main problem is that a lot of parents do not back the teachers. My kids go to an SCE school so I suppose we live in a little cocoon, but I have quite a good relationship with the teachers at my kids school and because of this my kids know that if they dont behave, I will get to hear about it and they can stand by for disciplinry proceedings from Me or Mrs Taff.

No dramas so far but I look around at some of their mates and you have to worry, my kids tell me that one of their mates got excluded that day and that evening the little bollox is knocking on my door asking if the boy is coming out. Why are'nt his parents getting a grip of him?

I think the blame should be laid at parents more than teachers, however HM Gov should take a bit of the blame for restricting the mesures that teachers have at their disposal when dealing with the gobby little chavs.

asthetic classrooms are only a minor matter
 
#17
crabby said:
Ancient_Mariner said:
crabby said:
Case 1. Pupil throws acid in face of another pupil (unnamed pupils at unnamed school). That pupil is excluded for three days,
WTF

I don't think even the Krays did that in their 1960s gangland debt enforcer days.

When I was at school you got expelled permanently for swearing. Not swearing at a teacher - just swearing. Whet do you need to do to get expelled these days?

Were the police called? Surely an acid attack is GBH. How do the parents of the victim, now known as Scarface, feel about this?

When Mrs A_M was a teacher she told me that if a kid is expelled, the school loses funding for two kids. Is that still the case?
...

One of my pupils when excluded for violence (filmed and posted on the internet) was taken shopping by her mum on one of her exlusion days.

It's a nightmare. Society needs ways to deal with this. Kids need to be straightened out now, and fast. Parents need to be partly responsible.

To expell a kid... drug dealing tends to be the only way to get rid of most of them nowadays.

Even if they are violent it is hard to expell (if they are classed as having behavioural problems as a special educational need then they are classed as having a disability, you can not expell someone for their disability).

......
Bloody hell crabby, do you get danger money? If not, have you considered a safer career like EOD or opening Tehran's first hamburger joint.

taffridge said:
Bring back the cane!
The secondary school I went to was almost unique as it didn't have corporal pun (apart from one teacher who hit a kid with a cricket bat). Misbehaving kids went to an 'isolation unit' (a.k.a. the dinner hall) where they worked widely spaced out and in silence.

As well as punishing the little gits, this effectively excluded disruptive kids from the classroom. Depends on having enough willing teachers to work as 'wardens' in the isolation unit though.
 
#18
Most schools have a "red card room", "pupil exclusion room" "pupil inclusion room" or somesuch.

Problem is they're not run as enough of a deterrent:

Kids should be kept in seperate booths, accompanied to toilets, allowed no personal items (most just sit there on phone/ipod), only a pen and paper allowed. They come into school before all their friends, have break/lunch at different times and then are let out before they friends. If they mess up whilst there they can be held in detention that afternoon until the end of school (can legally hold 15mins after the end of school without prior warning and consent).

So it has to be properly run.

Cane... tempted sometimes!

I have not, as yet, been sworn at or had anything thrown at me. I have also only had one sexualised comment, a pupil calling me "gaaaay", which is far luckier than most of my collegues!

Just castrate awful parents :D
 
#19
ViroBono said:
On Radio 4's Today programme this morning, an organisation called the Teacher's Support Network contended that architects are to blame for poor education, as the way school buildings are designed makes it too hard for them to teach effectively.

Their followed a discussion with some lefty 'educationalist' who suggested that school buildings are responsible for truancy, because more attractive buildings would 'engage' pupils and make them want to come to school.

Clearly the concept of teachers and parents accepting responsibility for their actions, and those of the young creatures in their charge, is outmoded. It's enough to make you weep...[/quo

throughout the world there are kids and teachers working with chalk and blackboards, if that, sharing 1 book per class if they're lucky, in mud and straw huts, bomb sites, refugee tents etc, yet still managing perectly well to learn their own language and history and probably english as well. i too have spent some ten years teaching both teenagers and adults, and i can guarantee that the building you teach in is totally irrelevant...if you're any good as a teacher. the worst kids, and adults, can be engaged and taught if you, the teacher, take charge. the occassional discussion "behind the drill shed", as you might know it, helps sometimes, but once the teacher loses or gives up control, you're fcuked. to my eternal joy i managed to educate several hundred teenagers the schools had failed, purely because, in the kids' own explanations, their teachers let them run riot in class. what's that old saying about bad workmen and tools?
 

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