Edited

#2
I'm in a similar situation, as my unit's annual camp has been arranged at the same time as a CMT course, which many of the CMTs in my unit will be on.

Bit of bad timing, but I'm sure it's all part of a larger picture that I don't get to see. :)
 
#3
IBE,

I think you'll find JOTAC is a pre-requisite for promotion to Captain now.

msr
 
#4
its_been_emotional said:
It's difficult enough trying to get 2 weeks off a year from work without screwing other colleagues (NB I mean in terms of rotas/shifts not actual screwing you understand) so I'm getting increasingly hacked off with being told to go on courses which are required for me to progress in the TA instead of going on Camp. PQO course is now 2 x 2 weeks. JOTAC is another 2, so that's 3 years gone already. OK, JOTAC isn't a requirement but it is very good if you want to appreaciate the Army is not just your Unit / Corps. It's very irritating as I really want to spend time with my lot for longer than a weekend but just can't get there!

I appreciate and agree that we should have good training, it just seems a shame it comes at the expense of Camp. Can't really think of a way round it.
Cant think of a way round it? you mong??
If you have ever done an annual camp you should know courses are far and away the better option, none of the 'fkcu around for the sake of it.

How about changing your job if you are that keen?
 
#5
If your Annual Camps are as bad as all that then change Unit. And there's enough fcuking around on courses as well.

JOTAC isn't required for my cap badge but is definitely worth going on.
 
#6
If your Annual Camps are as bad as all that then change Unit. And there's enough fcuking around on courses as well.

JOTAC isn't required for my cap badge but is definitely worth going on.
 
#7
its_been_emotional said:
If your Annual Camps are as bad as all that then change Unit. And there's enough fcuking around on courses as well.

JOTAC isn't required for my cap badge but is definitely worth going on.
Seems a little extreme, just to get out of annual camp!

Still, there are I believe three views on unit annual camp-

1) "Tough and realistic training, really valuable stuff."

2) "Great piss up and I couldn't afford a real holiday. Where's the beach by the way?"

3) "What, a week on service writing?"
 
#8
its_been_emotional said:
It's difficult enough trying to get 2 weeks off a year from work without screwing other colleagues (NB I mean in terms of rotas/shifts not actual screwing you understand) so I'm getting increasingly hacked off with being told to go on courses which are required for me to progress in the TA instead of going on Camp. PQO course is now 2 x 2 weeks. JOTAC is another 2, so that's 3 years gone already. OK, JOTAC isn't a requirement but it is very good if you want to appreaciate the Army is not just your Unit / Corps. It's very irritating as I really want to spend time with my lot for longer than a weekend but just can't get there!

I appreciate and agree that we should have good training, it just seems a shame it comes at the expense of Camp. Can't really think of a way round it.
you could always sacrifice your annual leave!
 
#11
Well at least you have option of course or camp. I've only got the summer hols when I can do a 2 week camp cos of working in a school. Annual camps are run in June or September for our bn and try finding ANY course which runs over August [btw if there are any, please let me know...lol].

Also, because my class 1 was cancelled last july (lack of numbers) when I was able to do it (just finished uni course), I've missed the boat and so promotional prospects are slim to none. I now get the pleasure of watching my counterparts being 2 ranks ahead of me in some cases, cos they got the right course at the right time. I now spend my 2 weeks doing clerical work at the TAC. Ok rant over. Just wanted to put my tuppence worth in.

Freebie xxx
 
#12
I'm aware of the problem. Working in a school is a major nause, since your holidays are fixed, and fall on the periods that the Army at large is off too.

No chance of doing an attachment to a regular unit, a la Ex POND JUMP WEST?
 
#16
Lucky indeed. Our units main effort every year is the Annual Deployment Exercise. Getting a course instead is not usually an option bar trade and promotional. Even then you need your Troopies approval to do that over ADE. In order to get a "gucci" course or even something MTI related that the unit actually needs such as SAA, DI, PTI, you have to do that in addition to ADE.

So think yourself lucky you have the option to get qual'd up without a fight.
 
#17
freebie said:
Also, because my class 1 was cancelled last july (lack of numbers) when I was able to do it (just finished uni course), I've missed the boat and so promotional prospects are slim to none.
I don't understand why this problem is being ignored, it shows little understanding of the TA or does it. ACF/CCF get their camps in out of term times and so forces TA into badly timed camps, TA soldiers can't attend less the older component of which some won't be mobilised
 
#18
Unfortunately gents, in the post FAS TA world this is one aspect of TA training we will have to get more and more used to. There are several contributory factors:

1. All TA trades are being streamed to more closely reflect regular ones. While there will always remain a training gap to be made up on TTW the training bill for TA personnel to get courses for promotion is increasing.

2. MATTs require us to have more course trained personnel per sub unit than ITDs did - more 2 week courses.

3. Under FAS we are supposed to support our regular counterparts on their exercises, prepare to see fewer 'independent' camps as TA units.

4. Most TA units only have a commitment to provide soldiers trained to troop/platoon collective training level. Therefore in theory the need to deploy the whole Regiment/Battalion into the field for 2 weeks is reduced, despite the potential additional training value derived.

5. The current high op tempo means a greater strain on the army's training estate, the TA come low on the list when it comes to training area bookings. Combined with the environmentalists desire for less use of ATE there is less opportunity for the TA to do 'big' exercises.

6. On the term time issue, OTCs and cadet units are specifically set up for students and get a training priority for holiday times. This further puts pressure on TA unit training staff when it comes to booking training, and heaven forbid they should book training in August - that's reg staff block leave!

Back in the days of puttees, SLRs and cam cream in a bag we were required to train full TA units to deploy out to Germany to support BAOR when the balloon went up. Our priority now is to provide individuals and small formed bodies to support operations on an ongoing basis. Whether this is a correct use of an Army Reserve is and has been the subject of other discussions but it is the status quo.

It is therefore no surprise that the emphasis has shifted from collective training to individual training and, by extrapolation, to individual courses rather than Unit exercises. This, of course, has to exist in a cost neutral environment for the bean-counters. If you can put the 100 days a year in with 4-5 weeks given up then camp, courses and other bits are possible. If you fit the 27 days a year model then it is going to be an either or and the priority is probably going to be that course.

This is just one feature on the new, post FAS TA that we are going to have to like or lump. We may not like it but there is little that we can do about it.
 
#19
thedobo said:
its_been_emotional said:
It's difficult enough trying to get 2 weeks off a year from work without screwing other colleagues (NB I mean in terms of rotas/shifts not actual screwing you understand) so I'm getting increasingly hacked off with being told to go on courses which are required for me to progress in the TA instead of going on Camp. PQO course is now 2 x 2 weeks. JOTAC is another 2, so that's 3 years gone already. OK, JOTAC isn't a requirement but it is very good if you want to appreaciate the Army is not just your Unit / Corps. It's very irritating as I really want to spend time with my lot for longer than a weekend but just can't get there!

I appreciate and agree that we should have good training, it just seems a shame it comes at the expense of Camp. Can't really think of a way round it.
Cant think of a way round it? you mong??
If you have ever done an annual camp you should know courses are far and away the better option, none of the 'fkcu around for the sake of it.

How about changing your job if you are that keen?
Have to agree with you here mate, courses involve a lot less "hurry up and wait", also they get you the ticks in the box and on the right route for career development
 
#20
Blyth_spirit said:
6. On the term time issue, OTCs and cadet units are specifically set up for students and get a training priority for holiday times. This further puts pressure on TA unit training staff when it comes to booking training, and heaven forbid they should book training in August - that's reg staff block leave!
Suppose it could be worse they could have put a big ex on during the world cup, imagine the outcry if that happened Exercise World Cup Spoiler

No students (exam time) and I bet a few have found courses to get of the camp.
 

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