Edinburgh march today

#1
It was a good turnout today in Edinburgh - the BBC website estimated "hundreds" of campaigners but it seemed to me there was up to a thousand, with the same number of spectators lining the south side of Princes Street. The regimental associations led off in order of seniority with a few dozen unaffiliated types at the back, myself included.

The march was well-received with lots of applause from the spectators and one amusing banner atteacted much applause and comments - it read "Hoon's a Balloon" which seemend to go down well. The speeches were good, particularly Brig Barnett.

The earth did not move and I am sure that TCH is hardly quaking in his shoes at this moment. However, if each of the 2,000 or so marchers and spectators tell 3 friends "don't vote Liabour" and their 3 friends tell 3 friends each, then that is a message sent directly to 54,000 people. Add on the media coverage also, and a clear reason not to vote Liabour has been sent to a lot of people. This will influence them in deciding which box to tick at election time.

On the face of it, regimental amalgamations and cutbacks may not seem crunch issues to change people's votes but there are other factors involved. The Scottish Parliament is very unpopular because of a massive overspend on its own building (funny old thing) and poorly performing health services (worse than England and Wales; there are at least 3 unpopular hospital closures/mergers I could list off the top of my head) with council tax increases. Add onto that the unpopularity of the Iraq war and this gives a potent brew for dissent. Now, the MSPs are not due to stand for election until 2007, but the argument that "health is a devolved matter" probably won't register too highly in the minds of voters wishing to send a clear message to Bliar and Liabour. Watch for a thinning of the Scottish Liabour MP ranks in 2005, and a drubbing for Liabour UK-wide.

Hopefully the excellent STSR campaign will continue with the fielding of election candidates and a tactical voting campaign. It is crucial that alliances with opposition parties are maintained and built because, under certain circumstances, it may be best to allow a single candidate a clear run at a seat - for example, if there is a particularly contentious hospital closure and a single-issue anti-closure candidate with a lot of local support.

Selection and maintenance of aim - Bliar out in 2005!
 
#2
Thanks Mr PVRd. Just seen BBC News 24 report on the march. Looked like an excellent turnout - especially considering last Saturday before Xmas - with enthusiastic support from the pavements. Good interviews with Brig Charles Ritchie and the great Menzies Campbell. The Brig stated that 1 Royal Scots is warned off for former Yugoslavia - NOT Iraq as previously reported.
 
#3
BBC24 also carried short interview with Gen Sir Robert Richardson.

This from PA News via Scotsman website:
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3905055

Sat 18 Dec 2004 5:31pm (UK)
Thousands Join Protest to Save Scottish Regiments

By Louise Gray, PA

Thousands of campaigners took to the streets today to protest against controversial plans to merge Scotland’s historic battalions into a new “super regiment”.

Fired by the news that the six Scottish regiments are to become four [i.e. five] battalions in a single Royal Regiment of Scotland, around 2,000 campaigners braved the biting cold to bring Edinburgh’s Princes Street to a standstill.

For a moment, even the Christmas shoppers put down their bags to applaud the passing mass of pipers in highland dress, military vehicles, supporters waving placards and war veterans.

Opposition politicians led the march, followed by pipe bands of each of the Scottish regiments in the order they were raised: the Royal Scots, Royal Highland Fusiliers, Kings Own [Scottish] Borderers, Black Watch, Highlanders and Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders.

On arrival at Ross bandstand in Princes Street Gardens, the amphitheatre overflowed with Glengarries, Tam O’Shanters and woollen hats [?].

Jeff Duncan of Save Our Scottish Regiments, which organised the protest, confirmed the organisation will take on Labour in key marginal seats in next year’s expected General Election.

To cheers from the crowd, he said: “We will deliver a clear message to the government: If they do not listen to the people, they will pay at the ballot box.”

Under reforms announced by Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon, the number of infantry battalions across the UK will be reduced from 40 to 36.

In Scotland the Royal Scots and the King’s Own Scottish Borderers are to become a single battalion alongside the Black Watch in the new “super regiment”.

Mr Hoon said the changes were essential to provide a more “agile, flexible and deployable” Army for the 21st Century.

But SNP leader Alex Salmond predicted the proposals will “crumble, melt and run away” in the face of the protests.

“Blair believes he is taking on some old soldiers and their families, I believe he is taking on a nation and he is going to lose and we are going to win,” he said. [good stuff!]

And Mr Salmond predicted that Labour would pay the price for the changes in next year’s expected General Election.

“They want to save the Scottish Labour MPs and disband the regiments. We are going to save the regiments and disband the Scottish Labour MPs.”

Labour has already suffered a blow north of the border after it was defeated in the Scottish Parliament over the issue hours after Mr Hoon’s announcement.

Scottish Conservative leader David McLetchie reminded the crowd of the Tory motion, condemning “any cuts and mergers” and calling for the existing battalions, that was backed by the Liberal Democrats and the SNP.

And lone Scottish Tory MP Peter Duncan said a Conservative government would reinstate all six to “single-battalion regiment status” in the very first week.

Liberal Democrat deputy leader Sir Menzies Campbell suggested “alternative solutions” are available and the government should “think again”.

After an hour of only rousing speeches to keep the crowd warm, the one o’clock gun that is fired from the battlements of Edinburgh Castle every day interrupted General Sir Robert Richardson in midflow.

But the former Colonel in the Royal Scots continued: “So should we simply shut up, roll over and go home? The answer is a firm no ... With the support of the Scottish people we must continue to fight to have these cuts reversed at [sic - Hackle]

In his own Glengarry and wearing his great grandfather’s medals from World War I, Connar Chisholm, 11, carried a placard reading: “Save Our Granddad’s regiment”.

“I would like to be in the Royal Scots, it has been in our family for generations,” he said.

But his grandfather, former Royal Scot Major Steve Simpson, doubted there would be a Royal Scot regiment for his grandson to join.

“It is an absolute utter disgrace. It is the biggest defeat the British Army has ever endured,” he said.

Wife of a Royal Scot, Nicola Brash, 31, said the busy schedule of the regiment in the last few years proved how vital the soldiers are to world safety.

She said: “It is fantastic to see so many people turn out. We all know the whole of Scotland is behind us because it is wrong – we need our boys.”
 
#4
MrPVRd said:
It was a good turnout today in Edinburgh - the BBC website estimated "hundreds" of campaigners but it seemed to me there was up to a thousand, with the same number of spectators lining the south side of Princes Street. The regimental associations led off in order of seniority with a few dozen unaffiliated types at the back, myself included.
I was somewhere in front of you, for some reason :) I'd agree that it looked like a couple of thousand from where I was walking. There were even a couple of serving Lt.Cols "wandering down Princes St" at the time - they didn't join in, but it was good to see them out and about....

...interesting piece of, err, carefully scripted speech from the Labour Lord Provost of Edinburgh. I took her presence and speech to be about as close as she could come out in support, without her words being used against her by the party faithful.
 
#5
Hi, I think Hoon is a very resonable man and deserves a lot of respect because his job cannot be easy and if he thinks that the cut backs are necessary well he knows best. After all he is only following the advice of his uniformed staff. Who needs regimental identity it only causes trouble. If soldiers all wore the same cap badge their wouldn't be nearly as many fights!
 
#6
I smell journo, or someone looking for a punch 8O

If you feel that way about hoon and the restructuring, have a look around the forums and see what the general consensus on here is, then get back to us.

regards

agent smith
 
#7
ragyman said:
Hi, I think Hoon is a very resonable man and deserves a lot of respect because his job cannot be easy and if he thinks that the cut backs are necessary well he knows best. After all he is only following the advice of his uniformed staff. Who needs regimental identity it only causes trouble. If soldiers all wore the same cap badge their wouldn't be nearly as many fights!
fcuk off. Go serve In an Infantry regt, then talk.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#8
Cpl_ripper said:
ragyman said:
Hi, I think Hoon is a very resonable man and deserves a lot of respect because his job cannot be easy and if he thinks that the cut backs are necessary well he knows best. After all he is only following the advice of his uniformed staff. Who needs regimental identity it only causes trouble. If soldiers all wore the same cap badge their wouldn't be nearly as many fights!
fcuk off. Go serve In an Infantry regt, then talk.
Crack on while you can Ragyman !

As you know the bunny-huggers are busy trying to ban angling now, so you may not be able to get bites as good as this in future !

:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
#10
ragyman said:
Hi, I think Hoon is a very resonable man and deserves a lot of respect because his job cannot be easy and if he thinks that the cut backs are necessary well he knows best. After all he is only following the advice of his uniformed staff. Who needs regimental identity it only causes trouble. If soldiers all wore the same cap badge their wouldn't be nearly as many fights!

What is a Troll?

We've all heard the expression "He's a Troll", but have you ever taken the time to considered what that really means? If you're like most people, probably not. According to Merriam-Webster, a troll is a dwarf or giant in Scandinavian folklore inhabiting caves or hills. The troll I plan to discuss is a special variety referred to as the "Internet troll".

The Internet Troll

An Internet troll is someone who lurks in the dark recesses of bulletin boards awaiting hapless victims to prey upon. The troll derives his pleasure from sowing dissension and discord. He start arguments and provokes Flame Wars for the sole purpose of p*ssing people off and disrupting a board. The internet is his playground, and it's citizens are his playthings. The more he can anger or upset you, the better he feels about himself.

Trolls are not troubled by criticism. they could care less about what you think or feel. You cannot reason with them, you cannot chastise them, or make them feel guilty for their actions. They are true antisocials. The rules of society do not apply to them.

Some people due to constant exposure, have developed an immunity to troll tactics. They know better than to respond to them and simply ignore their cries for attention. Newbies however are easy prey for the veteran troll.

Common Troll Tactics

Makes accusations which can't be disproved

Misinterprets, misquotes, or misrepresents another person's point of view

Name calling

Use of offensive materials in their signature line

Trolling the posting of inflammatory material for the
purpose of eliciting emotionally charged responses.

Flooding making numerous posts to disrupt conversations

Impersonation sometimes a troll will modify the name of a well-liked member, and make offensive posts as if they were them.

Some Troll Terminology

Spanked or Slam Dunked- Trolls use these terms to signify that they have won an argument.

Trolling- To fish for responses by posting inflammatory material

Bwahahahaha- Trolls use this term as a delaying tactic to question they cannot respond to quickly, or have no answer for. It may also be used to intimidate another person occasionally.

Lamer- Trolls use this term to describe people that intimidate them

Puppet-master - A troll who acknowledges his true purpose

Puppet- A person whom the troll can easily manipulate

Sockpuppet- A character created by the troll to attack other users or support his viewpoint.

What effect does a troll have on a community?

Trolls are absolute Masters at spreading dissension, paranoia, and a general sense of ill-will. They can take what was once a pleasant place to exchange ideas, thoughts, and experiences, and turn it into a raging battleground! They can discourage both old and new members from participating, and cause others to leave in an effort to avoid their relentless attacks.

What can be done about trolls?

There are basically two tactics that can be employed when dealing with a particularly nasty troll.


Respond to him in a congenial manner. Sometimes he will calm down. Don't count on it though.

Ignore him. When you argue with a troll, he wins. When you show your agitation, he wins. When you exchange insults with a troll, he wins. The only thing a troll can't handle is your refusal to pay attention to him.


Simply put: Don't Feed The Trolls!

Troll Defenses

When trolls are confronted about their disruptive behavior, they tend to fall back on the tried and true defense of Free Speech. The majority of people on the internet support the right of free speech, and are therefore hesitant to censor or curtails another person's flow of thoughts, words, or ideas. The troll knows this, and uses it to his own self-serving advantage.

The best response to the troll's defense of free speech is: "Yes" you do have the right to say whatever you please, but you don't have the right to say it wherever you please.

Drawing the line as to what is an acceptable exercise of Free Speech is the job of the board administrator or owner. If he decides a troll's behavior has got out of hand, he has every right to ask him to leave. If the troll does not willingly comply, then the administrator can go one step farther and ban his IP. This does not always work though..

Trolls tend to be extremely resourceful individuals. They will find new ISP's to use, create new identities, or spam the board from another site. The best defense therefore, is to ignore the troll. He has little patience and must have his daily fix just like any other addict. By refusing to feed him, he will be forced to move on to greener pastures and seek out new victims to terrorize.

So Why Do Trolls Do What They Do?

Trolls do what they do because they crave your attention. Good or bad, it's all the same to the troll. In some vague, twisted way being obnoxious and putting other people down fills a void in their life. They enjoy seeing others get upset or hurt by their actions. They feel a great sense of accomplishment and power from viewing the chaos they have created. They and their efforts have been validated..

Part II

Are there different types of Trolls?

Yes trolls come in a variety of shapes, sizes, and dispositions. One variety that has proven to be especially nasty is the Conversational Terrorist troll. His weapons of choice are words and circular logic. He has honed the art of debate into a razor sharp weapon which he wields against his unsuspecting victims.

He has many potent forms of attack at his disposal, and will use them individually or in mass to defeat an opponent. Circular logic is the basis of many of his attacks. what is Circular Logic you ask? Circular logic is a logical error, caused by first making an assumption that can't be proven true, then, on the basis of that assumption, coming to some conclusion that is then used to "prove" that the first assumption is true. Confusing, huh? It's not to the troll.

I will briefly summarize these attacks below:

Ad Hominem Variants Attacking the person instead of the subject at hand

Sleight of Mind Fallacies Mental "magic" to cheat logic and fair dialog

Delay Tactics When the brain freezes, the lips flap on...

Question as Opportunity A favorite of politicians

General Irritants Verbal grenades, irritants, and ploys

The Classic Troll

The classic troll's primary purpose is to engage others in heated arguments or debates. They tend to be above-average in intelligence, and perceive their trolling behaviors as intellectual challenges.

The Obsessive/Compulsive Troll

The Obsessive troll tend to be fixated on one particular topic, basing all their trolls from a common theme. i.e. (Police Impersonators) They may post on other topics, but they will almost always return to their main theme before too much time has past.

The Preoccupied Troll

Preoccupied trolls are known for their long streams of psychobabble. Their posts tend to make no sense, and have no logical order to them. It's as if they are emptying their disorganized thoughts on to the board for all to see. Typical post will relate to religion, self-help topics, numerology, etc.

The Malevolent Troll

Malevolent trolls tend to engage in activities such as spamming and extreme profanity. On the average, they are probably the least intelligent of all the troll subtypes. It's rumored that most trolls of this type are chronic bed wetters, and have difficulties getting an erection. They are fascinated by topics concerning rectums, penises, and homosexuality.

Have you seen any trolls like this?

I'm sure you have at one time or another. To engage in battle with him is pointless, you cannot win! But for the troll it's a win/win situation. he has got your attention and is feeding off your emotions..

Why are trolls so good at what they do?

This will probably come as a shock to you, but trolls really aren't so different from you or I. They feel the same pain, anger, hurt,and sorrow that you do, only it's everyday of their lives. This is why they're so good at finding other peoples weak spots and pushing their buttons. They enjoy seeing others hurt like they do. their only source of validation in life comes from anonymous strangers, and it infuriates them when they see a happy, well-adjusted person.

Trolls are social misfits in real life. They have very few friends, family, or social outlets. They don't know how to appropriately gain the respect, approval, or attention that they so desperately crave. They'll spend hours on a bulletin just waiting for an opportunity to create chaos. In their minds this is an acceptable means of obtaining the attention and respect they long for.
Internet Trolls

Beware the Troll

How to handle a Troll, and beat them at their own game

what to do about Trolls?

Troller
 
#11
I was somewhere in front of you, for some reason I'd agree that it looked like a couple of thousand from where I was walking. There were even a couple of serving Lt.Cols "wandering down Princes St" at the time - they didn't join in, but it was good to see them out and about....

...interesting piece of, err, carefully scripted speech from the Labour Lord Provost of Edinburgh. I took her presence and speech to be about as close as she could come out in support, without her words being used against her by the party faithful.
I saw a lot of Barbours, moleskins and brogues out and about on Princes Street, more so than normal :twisted: . It was also a stirring sight to see the "old and bold" out, with their rows of medals dating back decades and even to WWII - they look like a sprightly bunch, so it must be good for you!

I did not applaud the Lord Provost, as the speech sufficed as a welcome but ducked the issue of the day.
 
#12
Thanks for attending the parade in Edinburgh on our behalf GB and MrPVRd. Unfortunately I'm stuck here in the USA and couldn't make it though I was with you all in spirit. My father estimated the parade at several thousand and said there was a great response from spectators on the parade route. Let's hope it has the desired effect.
 

Similar threads


Top