Discussion in 'Aviation' started by FlyingCarpet, Sep 18, 2003.

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  1. Afternoon all,

    Just looking for some advice here. I'm looking to join the AAC once I finish the joy which is RMAS. After all the basic rotary training and I'm at Wallop, do I choose what aircraft I will move onto or am I streamed without any say in the matter?

    Here's MY wish list,
    -Convert onto the Lynx and instruct
    -Fly Lynx Eagles
    -Convert on the Apache

    I've spoken to a few people, some laughed and some were positive. Those who gave me a chance, said that was a reasonable career path to want. I understand that instructing on the Lynx is probably the best way for me to get to the Eagles. Then after a few years of service I'd ask for a conversion onto the Apache. Now this is where it would no doubt get hard.

    I also realise that being relatively young, assuming I was good enough, I'd get pushed toward Apache. Can any offer some advice on how to get what I want, and if it is feasible?


    (Edited for Conversational errors 18/09/03)
  2. If you want to be a lynx driver, get yourself a subscription with Ginsters you will need an arse the size of a hippo to qualify.

    One bonus though, when you walk out on to the pan with your handsome door gunner in tow, you will get lots of attention from the ladies :D
  3. What about the bowser mongs? They're (semi) handsome too, yer know....

    Seriously, there's no reason why you can't pursue the path you want. Just don't be disappointed if it doesn't go the way you want. If you look at other threads connected to aviation (on PRUUNE as well), you may find that officers in the Corps eventually end up chained to a desk. I suggest you go on PRUUNE and ask there, as this avaiation section in ARRSE is hardly used.
  4. I ain't going near Pprune! One sniff of the Army and all those lonely jet jockys will be blahing all over the place.

    A nice idea, if it were a fair world where the crabs weren't so delusional as to their own ablity. 8)

    I doubt I'll be too disappointed if my little plan doesn't work. I'd love to have a crack at the Bell in a jungle. :wink:
  5. At the rate the papers would have us believe Apache is progressing conversation is all you are likely to get....even after the 4 years of adventurous training that the Joint Flying school would like to think is streamlined rotary wing flying training....
  6. It is possible! I'd just say be prepared to do something else as well and don't be totally set on AAC at Sandbags (all sorts of things can cause problems, medical etc..). If you have the time I'd also get grading and so on out of the way before you get there as it'll mean less pressure on you during officer trg. Have you spoken to our RLO or Regt Secretary yet?

    We had a lot of people apply at RMAS and we ended up with 6. We were a very popular choice so you have to have a good report at Sandhurst. I can't emphasise that enough.

    The pilot's course is now 18 months. Basically fixed wing - Cranwell, basic/advanced helis - Shawbury, operational trg - Wallop. At this stage you find out which type you're going to. Then it's conversion to type. Probably all will change though by the time you get there! If I can help at all please PM me.

    Best of luck!
  7. (swing the light, story coming on). I remember Oct 1986, and a young 2lt arriving at the Trg Wing in Middle Dallop, fresh from failing pilot training. He was posted into the MT as part time MTO until they were able to sort something out for him. Never saw him again in my 13 years. Wonder what happened to him? As Rotary Pongo has said, be prepared in case you DON'T make it into the AAC. And as Mighty said, go to http://www.ginsters.co.uk and start preparing.
  8. Thank you all for your replies. I have, in fact, already had the pleasure of staying at your Mess at Wallop. I had a great time both flying and in the bar.

    A few more questions I’m afraid.

    First, were my efforts at Grading given a percentage mark or was it just a simple pass or fail procedure? I’m hoping I won’t have much problem with the medical as I’ve done a spot of flying before and all seemed to go well with the medicals then. Fingers crossed anway.

    Second, I have no idea what the AAC is looking for from me whist I’m at Sandhurst. I understand that I will have termly reports written on my progress and performance, but is the AAC looking for fitness, leadership, academics, please don’t just say ‘an-all-rounder’! If the answer to the first quest is yes, that a scaled performance related mark is given at AFG, is this mark used as part of the selection process whilst at Sandbags?



    P.S. Have written my Ginsters training plan. Start after the run on Sunday 8)
  9. Army Air Corps: Officers: Leadership - Now, there's a novelty !

    God, Australia is great.
  10. Cheers Plod.

    Leadership - "You, you, you panic - you follow me".

    No, grading is pass or fail. The whole pilot selection is really, either you pass it or you don't. If you pass that bit of selection fine but it won't be looked at all as far as selecting you at interview at Sandbags. (Unless some of the experienced hands can correct me there).

    At Sandhurst yes you have to be an all rounder and all of the things you mention are important. The obvious thing to say is that if you can run like an olympian but can't write an essay or do a set of orders your report might not read too favourably compared to what the board want. But the key thing is don't worry about how you look. Turn up keen, fit, willing to help others and work hard and you'll be fine.

    You'll be amazed at the number of people who only work infront of the DS (these are the ones people really can't stand) and so on. If you keep your sense of humour you'll have no probs. However you need to be in at least middle third of your platoon or you will not be accepted.

    Remember, the AAC does not look at your qualities.....your second term pl comd and CSgt do (they change after term 1). They write your report that goes to the board so it is them you have to impress. As I said above though, good DS will see through ass kissers and grade those who work hard well. Don't fall into the trap of becoming a sycophant or your pl will just think you're a nob.

    When are you due to start?


    PS: Re: Ginster trg. I'd drop the run.
  11. Horlicks..

    Have to disagree...if it comes down to one place on a course and 2 candidates....the higher the margin score on grading will surely count. Thats the whole point of GRADING...to GRADE the students or to give each person a GRADE.

    With regard to advice for Flying Carpet, its a simple case of doing everything to the best of your ability..take advice on the chin like a grown up... and make up your own mind what is and isnt sensible.

    Above all, enjoy it.
  12. Well, not really because Officers aren't loaded onto courses by the Regt Acceptance Board at RMAS. They have a quota for officer intake which they have to fill with suitable candidates. Some (like me) will not even have done grading at the board and it is only considered if you pass grading as a training risk. Otherwise it's a pass/fail 13 hours although you are graded but not told your scores (I'm not even sure if the board are given them). At least that's my understanding.

    I thinbk grading is a very good idea though. I met people at Cranwell who haven't ever been in a plane yet they're starting groundschool! Computer tests are fine to a point but until you actually put them in the air how are you really going to know?
  13. Just a few thoughts....

    Grading - it is my understanding that you are graded either 'pass', 'training risk' or 'fail'. The decision to load you on a pilots cse is then mainly based on other factors such as the current shortage or otherwise of pilots, availability of places and your current rank/cap badge/promotion prospects, etc. Obviously if you are a 'training risk' then this will also be a factor in the debate but there are plenty of experienced pilots out there who scraped through on this grading (not me I hasten to add!!!).

    FlyingCarpet - a few thoughts on your career aspirations....

    You need to be very aware that the AAC is not the RAF and therefore we expect our officers to be exactly that.... officers. You would do well to ensure that at your AAC interview board you make them aware that leading soldiers is an important part of your ambitions. For any officer, sub unit (Coy/Sqn) command is the first major career goal (albeit one that is likely to take a long time to achieve) and the board would expect you to say so. Flying helicopters is core AAC business and extremely important but you will be expected to look beyond that to the wider delivery of aviation capability. Simply reeling off a list of the flying jobs you want and aircraft types that you wish to fly will not impress. RotaryPongo is correct when he says that competition is tough so you'll need to be pressing all the right buttons to get through.

    The other point is that the sequence that you list is something that you are extremely unlikely to be able to follow. Even non-grads and QHIs will do very well to get more than two full flying tours and if you are ambitious/ a graduate then 1 - 2 is more realistic. Typically you should expect to complete a 3 year flying tour at a Regiment on Lynx, Gazelle or Apache (guys are going direct from the pilots cse now) ending up as a Flt Comd/Sqn Ops Offr/Sqn 2IC. Ambitious officers will then complete an SO3 tour at either a HQ or a Regt'l appointment (Adjutant, Ops Officer). Otherwise it is possible to complete an exchange tour (RAF, RN, foreign) or attend a QHI cse although both these are likely to set you back in career terms. Regardless you can then expect an SO3 job at the end unless you become very specialist and go down the ETPS route or something similar. It may be possible to fly with the Eagles as a QHI at MW although I suspect that the Lynx in the team is likely to come under increasing threat....

    Hope this doesn't sound too gloomy but, regardless, it is a thoroughly accurate description of the system. You will often hear comments like 'it must change with AH' but frankly it won't. Believe me I am sufficiently close to the various HQs concerned to know that changes to AAC officer career structures are not even being seriously discussed.

    Hope this helps!
  14. Avn_LO, I understand the AAC is not the RAF, and also that it does not operate in the same way as the RAF.

    My view, as someone from the outside, is that Officers in the AAC are trained to fly and operate the aircraft in order to be in a position to use them to there full potential later in their career when in a command role.

    After all, the aircraft are essentially a tool, and when trying to learn how to use a tool to the best of its ability, the best way is to use that tool, in this case to fly it. Once trained, 1-2 tours shows the Officer how the aircraft is used in the field and from that he/she can then move to a command role (behind a desk at times) where he/she determines the delivery route of the resource i.e. the aircraft.

    If I wanted to pursue a career as P1 and little else, I'd probably have joined the RAF or RN. If I wanted to join the Army as a pilot I'd join as a soldier. Obviously flying is a great part of any job, but I think the chance to direct a number of aircraft and deliver their capability from a command role, would be the icing on the cake.

    Whether the above is correct or not, hopefully I'll be able to find out in a few months time :wink:

    Oh and just as another point, will the AH joining the Beagles?

  15. Excellent attitude. If you get binned, you could always join up as a soldier and be a bowser mong, just like me. I'm quite handsome you know (no comments Mighty, and here's a f**k off before you make any).