E-coli as Bacterialogical agent

maguire

LE
Book Reviewer
#2
its bound to happen eventually...knowledge that would have been pretty specialised thirty or forty years ago is now probably only a few clicks away or the web, or at least more easily obtainable... as to wether this is 'it', I suppose we'll have to wait and see whether we all start sh*tting our rings inside out in the near future...
 
#4
Is it worrying or wibbling?
Neither. It's interesting.

If anyone wanted to find some e-coli, they wouldn't have to look further than their own shit. If you want to cause e-coli infection, you just have to spread shit into the food chain, ideally onto food that doesn't get cooked, or is already cooked.
 
#5
Biological warfare is fairly inneffective - even less so than chemical warfare.

The simple fact is, if any terrorist group really wants to cause harm, they'll just do what they always do and mix up a batch of home made HE and fill it with lots of pre-made fragments.
 
#6
There was a case in the US a few years ago, where salad bars were deliberately contaminated with something nasty - Salmonella I think.
 
#8
Biological warfare seldom works nowadays.

Chucking a dying, plague-infected aminal over the wall of a city in Medieval times might have caused a bit of consternation, but nowadays, you're not going to kill many people. There are those (dons ceremonial tin-foil hat) that believe SARS, Swine Flu, fake vaccines etc. are all attempts to cull the population, but if so, they haven't exactly been very successful. The Fuhrer would have been most displeased. Even the Foot-and-Mouth epidemics didn't kill many cows, the lunatics who ran around slaughtering pet goats which "might become infected" did that. (Removes tin-foil hat).

And if a number of people with low-grade immune systems do succumb in the early stages, and of course that's a tragedy for the person concerned, then humans are generally sensible enough to (a) avoid the causes as far as possible as soon as the cause is identified (b) upgrade their hygiene protocols and (c) seek medical advice quickly enough for the majority to avoid anything other than a temporarily-close relationship with the loo.

And then there's always this; UK Colloidal Silver and antibiotics (especially Ciprofloxacin, available from any Egyptian pharmacist, accept no substitutes) and anti-virals.

The only real winners are the drug companies, provided they can convince an oaf to over-order and pay up without a cancellation clause. The worst thing from the terrorists' point of view, is that they might not be able able to successfully take credit for the outbreak.
 
#9
Why go to the trouble to synthesise E Coli when every ******** is full of it.

The mystery of the German outbreak will be solved when the Bundespolizei finally catch "biohazard Ali" brown handed in teasing Jarrod's inner hamster with an assortment of fresh vegetables.
 
#12
Watched the Tudors series a few months ago and in particular the episode where Henry was laying siege to Bolougne and so many of his forces fell victim to 'The Flux' which was basically dysentery and a lot of them died from it. Whether this was because the French deliberately shit in all the local watercourses to poison Henry's army, I guess we'll never know, but it would certainly be an effective weapon especially as they didn't have the cleaning regimes we have now.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
spain has a serious water shortage because it and portugal are draining the water courses to feed the need for tourists to shower five times a day. the interior is becoming a dust bowl as they arent getting enough rain to water the crops and farmers are going out of business left right and centre.

so just like they do in egypt and a lot of the islands they are recycling water but arent treating it, just storing it and pumping it around the greenhouses. anyone who has stayed in the sharm will have noticed that the hotels are build on huge underground tanks and they spray the lawns after dark with the runoff from the sinks and showers. which normally would be fine except for the prevalence of gyppy tummy.

armies have shit in the water or dumped bodies down the wells for millennia, they would also catapult dead animals or plague victims over the walls to encourage capitulation
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#14
Pretty all medieval armies besieging a city suffered from dysentery, etc. That's because they didn't understand (a) germs and (b) sanitation. So stick a lot of men into a small space and allow them to throw aside food scraps and crap everywhere and you're pretty guaranteed to get disease. (And it doesn't even have to be medieval - look at the losses to disease in the Crimean war).

As far as biological/chemical weapons, the cheapest technology is probably a nerve gas. This needs to be released in a combined space - as in Tokyo in 1995.

Sarin gas attack on the Tokyo subway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To do that, you'd need a well equipped chemical lab, protective clothing and a delivery system - probably releasing from a compressed gas bottle.

One hopes our security services are monitoring sales or imports of specific critical chemicals and lab equipment.

Wordsmith
 
#15
I read a report today suggesting the E-coli outbreak in Germany could be man-made, then did a quick Google and found this link from January.

Covert News: E. Coli resurrected in lab - coming to a terrorist attack near you in the near future?

Is it worrying or wibbling?
Further to what others have said a biological weapon like E.Coli can't be terribly effective as it is fairly indiscriminate and unless you can 100% guarantee whom you are feeding it to you won't be able to target effectively. Now that's great if you want to hit everyone but there's always a chance it will come back to bite you in arrse when one of your own consumes food from the same source.
 
#16
It's just the Spanish getting their own back for Guernica, bit slow the Spanish!
 
#17
Crapping in a camp water tower tank could work?
Or in the canteen "Screech" (fruit juice, alledged) like generations of sloppies have done....
Drinking water should contain calcium hypochlorite (the same stuff used in swimming pools) in sufficient quantity to kill any bacteria introduced by either of the above. Additionally, the drinks dispensers in the canteen should be cleaned regularly by filling them with a disinfectant fluid. (I know that this is actually done, as I was v late into scran once, and downed 3/4 of a pint of what I thought was lemon juice before the taste hit me.)
 
#18
I read a report today suggesting the E-coli outbreak in Germany could be man-made, then did a quick Google and found this link from January.

Is it worrying or wibbling?
Two possibilities;

1) Bio-terrorists have created genetically modified e-coli in a secret laboratory and spread it on vegetable crops;

or 2) someone spread uncomposted shit on the salad patch and someone else is spreading rumours about 1 above.

I'd bet on the No. 2 scenario (geddit?).
 
#19
Sarin gas attack on the Tokyo subway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To do that, you'd need a well equipped chemical lab, protective clothing and a delivery system - probably releasing from a compressed gas bottle.

One hopes our security services are monitoring sales or imports of specific critical chemicals and lab equipment.
Even nerve gas is a pretty shit weapon against even unprotected people in an ideal environment. Compare Tokyo with 7/7 for example - similar scale of attacks, many times more casualties just using a simple bomb or two.

Then try the same thing on trained soldiers, in the open with NBC kit... there's a good reason that the world's major powers gave up with the B and C bits of NBC some time ago.
 
#20
Biological warfare is fairly inneffective - even less so than chemical warfare.

The simple fact is, if any terrorist group really wants to cause harm, they'll just do what they always do and mix up a batch of home made HE and fill it with lots of pre-made fragments.
Hmm... Innefective it may be but it causes a lot of alarm & disruption in the community attacked, Saddams supposed WMD, which may or may not have been chemical or biological caused us to go to war! The Anthrax letter bombs caused a scare in the States a few years ago :- FBI — Amerithrax Investigation
Lets not forget WW1 where It was estimated that about 88,498 deaths were because of gas. 1,240,853 cases were non fatal
So quite a lot of fatalities & huge ammounts of disruption!

Read more: Answers.com - How many people died from gas in World War 1
 

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