DVLA & LGV Driver Shortage

Slime

LE
On BBC R4 'Today' Programme, one of the cited reasons that the army contribution might be limited was the (in)ability of new drivers to know how to fill the tankers at the depots and to safely discharge fuel at the Service stations - or is this not the case?

For my own take:
The army has at least 50 qualified fuel tanker drivers.
It has some regular and some reserve drivers.
From experience many of the reserve drivers will also be commercial drivers for their day job.
The reserve drivers may take one drivers away from commercial work if they deliver fuel now, but will be familiar with modern commercial vehicles.

Obviousy military tanker drivers will be familiar with military tankers, and will be qualified to operate a tanker.
They should know how to operate in a refinery but might not be familiar with operating with civilian customers or civilian forecourt.

But, and this is the crucial thing, if the leaked report is correct the whole of the U.K. would only need a other TEN drivers long term. This can be rectified in a few months. The issue with the lack of deliveries to forecourts will be nearly 100% the fault of those responsible for supplyingnthe tankers and drivers, and nothin to do with the overall number of drivers in the U.K.

As others have said, Hoyer have a lot to answer for.

Many years ago driving a fuel tanker for one of the big companies was a dream job, very very well paid and you pretty much had to know someone already doing it to be able to get a job.
From what I hear nowadays it’s nothing at all like that.

The thing the army CAN do now is to use its LGV testers to boost the testing rate of new LGV drivers. This will increase numbers passing the test, but more importantly will take away the ‘leverage’ of current testers who are threatening to strike now they have been called to work longer hours to clear the covid related backlog.

Just my two penneth.
 
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Robme

LE
On BBC R4 'Today' Programme, one of the cited reasons that the army contribution might be limited was the (in)ability of new drivers to know how to fill the tankers at the depots and to safely discharge fuel at the Service stations - or is this not the case?
Seriously, we see constant reports from the industry and very little from the drivers themselves. With 600,000 HGV drivers who could pick up the mantel very quickly, if so desired then just why is the MSM not covering that aspect? The industry has been aware of a potential perfect storm on the horizon of driver shortages since 2000, they have done nothing to sort that out. Instead they raced to the bottom assisted by the government who refused to spend a single poung on driver facilities. Mean while in the E.U. They are currently in the middle of spending over €5bn on improvements to driver rest places. W.C.’s, showers, decent food, a bed for the night. That’s not being reported on the MSM either.
 
For my own take:
The army has at least 50 qualified fuel tanker drivers.
It has some regular and some reserve drivers.
From experience many of the reserve drivers will also be commercial drivers for their day job.
The reserve drivers may take one drivers away from commercial work if they deliver fuel now, but will be familiar with modern commercial vehicles.

Obviousy military tanker drivers will be familiar with military tankers, and will be qualified to operate a tanker.
They should know how to operate in a refinery but might not be familiar with operating with civilian customers or civilian forecourt.

But, and this is the crucial thing, if the leaked report is correct the whole of the U.K. would only need a other TEN drivers long term. This can be rectified in a few months. The issue with the lack of deliveries to forecourts will be nearly 100% the fault of those responsible for supplyingnthe tankers and drivers, and nothin to do with the overall number of drivers in the U.K.

As others have said, Hoyer have a lot to answer for.

Many years ago driving a fuel tanker for one of the big companies was a dream job, very very well paid and you pretty much had to know someone already doing it to be able to get a job.
From what I hear nowadays it’s nothing at all like that.

The thing the army CAN do now is to use its LGV testers to boost the testing rate of new LGV drivers. This will increase numbers passing the test, but more importantly will take away the ‘leverage’ of current testers who are threatening to strike. ow they have been called to work longer hours to clear the covid related backlog.

Just my two penneth.
As said above, Pte Bloggs finds out he can earn X thousands more in Civvy street and PVRs and gets a civvy job, now the Army are short of Drivers...and around in circles we go.
 

syrup

LE
Talkradio have just done a news segment saying the Petrol Retail Asssoiation (PRA) are saying they don't think the army have the skills to operate tankers.

While the army obviously already has tanker drivers in both regular and reserve forms that won't be the issue imho.

I sense the currently closed cartel that is the fuel tanker industry are running scared a truck the prospect that they long established practices may be about to be broken up.

And that can only be a good thing.


The Army and RAF will have some (and it will be a very small amount) of tanker drivers
But refueling a line of Jets or armoured vehicles is a world away from slinging a tanker on a forecourt and hooking up to different grades of fuels via multiple pipe lines

They will need training so won't be delivering fuel tomorrow
 

Robme

LE
Really? Have you seen the state of the care industry? I'd rather drive a truck than work in care. It's a disgrace.
I was referring to Professional careers, but yep I should have made that point clearer.
 

Slime

LE
The Army and RAF will have some (and it will be a very small amount) of tanker drivers
But refueling a line of Jets or armoured vehicles is a world away from slinging a tanker on a forecourt and hooking up to different grades of fuels via multiple pipe lines

They will need training so won't be delivering fuel tomorrow

I can only speak from being a former tanker driver…….. but what do I know :)

As you refer, the military tanker drivers are used to delivering a far wider range of fuels, and I can tell you that hot refuelling a helicopter is infinitely more dangerous than discharging to a garage forecourt. :)

The military do already have more than enough tanker drivers to fill the shortfall.

As per a previous humorous comment about firing up the Fodens, many military tanker drivers are perfectly used to filling from civilian refineries, and are used to driving modern wagons in tight situations.
A reserve tanker who drives for a living Monday to Friday wouldn’t have any issue driving onto a forecourt :)

Edit.

Should have added, with regard to the line of jets comment, RN and RAF tanker drivers may well have less experience of normal refinery work compared to regular and reserve army drivers.
 
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Robme

LE
I think it is more to do with the general public's short concentration spans and inability to be critical readers - and increasingly, people drawing their 'news' from Social Media. See also anti-maskers, anti-vaxxers, anti-testers...
It’s a bit rich to blaim the public, in light of just how this government has behaved since the pandemic struck. Everything they could do wrong, they did. They lied, they lined the pockets of their mates, they over looked the deaths of approx 170,000 of their citizens the highest death rate as expressed as a percentage of the population in the entire world (New Zealand another island nation about the same size as the U.K. had 12 deaths). They have been a disaster.
This HGV shortage isn’t even new news, 5 years ago an internal enquiry pointed out the lack,of new blood coming in. 21 years ago, when they changed the route to Class 1 driving on 8 U.K. citizens actually took and passed the new C+E test, that year 240,000 HGV drivers left the industry. It’s not just Tory governments, but all governments. Nobody wants to deal with an industry that even the public don’t like (even though as we have seen without HGV’s the nation is fooked).
There are solutions, easy ones, but until the haulage industry wake up and take responsibility for what they alone created (which clearly they are unwilling to do), then we will just continue to muddle on. It’s a good job we aren’t relying on the government to fook up energy isn’t it? Oh wait doh.
 

Robme

LE
I can only speak from being a former tanker driver…….. but what do I know :)

As you refer, the military tanker drivers are used to delivering a far wider range of fuels, and I can tell you that hot refuelling a helicopter is infinitely more dangerous than discharging to a garage forecourt. :)

The military do already have more than enough tanker drivers to fill the shortfall.

As per a previous humorous comment about firing up the Fodens, many military tanker drivers are perfectly used to filling from civilian refineries, and are used to driving modern wagons in tight situations.
A reserve tanker who drives for a living Monday to Friday wouldn’t have any issue driving onto a forecourt :)
But I say again, which haulier is going to let an army driver with LITTLE OR MORE LIKLEY NONE Experience of civvy tankers, driver their £200,000 fuel tanker?
 

Slime

LE
About 48 hours ago, roughly 1% of petrol filling stations had run out of fuel and had to close. Today, it's 90%. That exponential rise is due to the MSM happily spunking stories all over the front pages about how by Christmas we'll all be living in a Mad Max, post-Apocalyptic world where people are murdering each other for the last canned food, bog-roll and half a jerry-can of fuel.

What's most annoying is this is hardly an isolated incident. You only have to look back to the early days of Lockdown to see hordes of idiots stripping supermarkets of everything that wasn't nailed down. They were fighting over toilet paper, for God's sake, even though a dose of the runs isn't a symptom of Kung Flu.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it".
- Men in Black

The MSM know exactly the kind of effect running these stories will have, and do it anyway. Not because they don't care: on the contrary, the more the herd panics, the more stories they have to report on.

If it bleeds, it leads. :rolleyes:

The leaked report mentioned something like 5 or 12 BP stations of of 1200 BP stations being closed. I don’t know the stats for the other 7000 non BP stations in the U.K., but wait until the MSM find out that 4000 stations have closed in the last 20 years……….it will be the end of the world :)
 

Robme

LE
How about this as a conspiracy theory?
we all know that the industry has been pushing for a E.U. Driver visa and getting nowhere? So the industry in cohoots with their mouthpieces the FTA & RHA, have a little quiet word with the Fuel delivery outfits and ask them to withdraw a few tankers, in respect of the greater good. Just for a while mind you, long enough for the public to remember 2000 and the tanker drivers strike?
it might be a conspiracy theory, but it’s worked really well hasn’t it?
 

kieren21

Clanker
How about this as a conspiracy theory?
we all know that the industry has been pushing for a E.U. Driver visa and getting nowhere? So the industry in cohoots with their mouthpieces the FTA & RHA, have a little quiet word with the Fuel delivery outfits and ask them to withdraw a few tankers, in respect of the greater good. Just for a while mind you, long enough for the public to remember 2000 and the tanker drivers strike?
it might be a conspiracy theory, but it’s worked really well hasn’t it?

That exact thought crossed my mind - easier to control a relatively small portion of the industry and cause a huge amount of instant noticeable disruption
 
How about this as a conspiracy theory?
we all know that the industry has been pushing for a E.U. Driver visa and getting nowhere? So the industry in cohoots with their mouthpieces the FTA & RHA, have a little quiet word with the Fuel delivery outfits and ask them to withdraw a few tankers, in respect of the greater good. Just for a while mind you, long enough for the public to remember 2000 and the tanker drivers strike?
it might be a conspiracy theory, but it’s worked really well hasn’t it?
Please accept this donation towards your hat
20210927_123211.jpg
 
It’s a bit rich to blaim the public, in light of just how this government has behaved since the pandemic struck. Everything they could do wrong, they did. They lied, they lined the pockets of their mates, they over looked the deaths of approx 170,000 of their citizens the highest death rate as expressed as a percentage of the population in the entire world (New Zealand another island nation about the same size as the U.K. had 12 deaths). They have been a disaster.
This HGV shortage isn’t even new news, 5 years ago an internal enquiry pointed out the lack,of new blood coming in. 21 years ago, when they changed the route to Class 1 driving on 8 U.K. citizens actually took and passed the new C+E test, that year 240,000 HGV drivers left the industry. It’s not just Tory governments, but all governments. Nobody wants to deal with an industry that even the public don’t like (even though as we have seen without HGV’s the nation is fooked).
There are solutions, easy ones, but until the haulage industry wake up and take responsibility for what they alone created (which clearly they are unwilling to do), then we will just continue to muddle on. It’s a good job we aren’t relying on the government to fook up energy isn’t it? Oh wait doh.
F**k me, that's apples and pears that is! NZ with a population of under five million, in an area the size of the UK!

Get real dude! If we had a population density like that that our figures would be massively different.
 
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It’s a bit rich to blaim the public (if it isn't the public panic buying, who is it?) in light of just how this government has behaved since the pandemic struck. Everything they could do wrong, they did. They lied, they lined the pockets of their mates, they over looked the deaths of approx 170,000 of their citizens the highest death rate as expressed as a percentage of the population in the entire world (New Zealand another island nation about the same size as the U.K. had 12 30 deaths - but in no other way, comparable). They have been a disaster.
This HGV shortage isn’t even new news, 5 years ago an internal enquiry pointed out the lack,of new blood coming in. 21 years ago, when they changed the route to Class 1 driving on 8 U.K. citizens actually took and passed the new C+E test, that year 240,000 HGV drivers left the industry. It’s not just Tory governments, but all governments. Nobody wants to deal with an industry that even the public don’t like (even though as we have seen without HGV’s the nation is fooked).
There are solutions, easy ones, but until the haulage industry wake up and take responsibility for what they alone created (but up above you said it was the government changing the licensing requirements - do make up your mind) (which clearly they are unwilling to do), then we will just continue to muddle on. It’s a good job we aren’t relying on the government to fook up energy isn’t it? Oh wait doh.
And remind us of the time your were a AO grade civil servant in Northern Ireland running CHIS? Or was it when you were dispatching 'them' from a Hercules, or was it an Andover?
 

Truxx

LE
Squaddie, "Sorry, mate. No jerrycans allowed".

Driver, "Fcuk off! You can't tell me what to do!"

Squaddie. "It's the rules, mate. Anyway, you can't waste time here; you've got to get to A&E so they can treat that nasty head wound"

Driver, "But I don't have a head wound!"

Squaddie(twats him with a pick-helve)"You do now, mate..." :twisted:
Nail

Head

Or rather

Pick helve

Head.
 

Truxx

LE
For my own take:
The army has at least 50 qualified fuel tanker drivers.
It has some regular and some reserve drivers.
From experience many of the reserve drivers will also be commercial drivers for their day job.
The reserve drivers may take one drivers away from commercial work if they deliver fuel now, but will be familiar with modern commercial vehicles.

Obviousy military tanker drivers will be familiar with military tankers, and will be qualified to operate a tanker.
They should know how to operate in a refinery but might not be familiar with operating with civilian customers or civilian forecourt.

But, and this is the crucial thing, if the leaked report is correct the whole of the U.K. would only need a other TEN drivers long term. This can be rectified in a few months. The issue with the lack of deliveries to forecourts will be nearly 100% the fault of those responsible for supplyingnthe tankers and drivers, and nothin to do with the overall number of drivers in the U.K.

As others have said, Hoyer have a lot to answer for.

Many years ago driving a fuel tanker for one of the big companies was a dream job, very very well paid and you pretty much had to know someone already doing it to be able to get a job.
From what I hear nowadays it’s nothing at all like that.

The thing the army CAN do now is to use its LGV testers to boost the testing rate of new LGV drivers. This will increase numbers passing the test, but more importantly will take away the ‘leverage’ of current testers who are threatening to strike now they have been called to work longer hours to clear the covid related backlog.

Just my two penneth.
I was actually asked last evening what the capacity of DST was. (I was there when it was running hot)

Oh and with noting that in civvy Street a tester course last 2 weeks. DHL have recently set up a driving "academy" with 2 testers. I was a bit surprised, but 2 testers doing 5 tests a day 5 days a week is actually quite a lot.
 
And remind us of the time your were a AO grade civil servant in Northern Ireland running CHIS? Or was it when you were dispatching 'them' from a Hercules, or was it an Andover?
Welcome back, @Robme

For those who are unaware of this underpant, please read from this post onwards - then take anything he says with a handful of salt.
 

Slime

LE
Nail

Head

Or rather

Pick helve

Head.

That’s rather sad.
I have spent the morning wondering what ‘dodges’ any military personnel could come up with if they have to get involved.

I saw:
sorry sir, no jerry cans allowed……..
Ooh, is that a slab of beer I see in your car…….
Hey, let this man through, make way for the life saving NHS doctor :)
 

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