DVLA & LGV Driver Shortage

anglo

LE
The point I am making is that the media are not to blame for the driver shortage and the consequences of that shortage.
The point I am making is that the media are not to blame

This is the sky headline this morning, note the "could last until Christmas"
They have blown this up out of all proportion

Screenshot 2021-09-27 at 10-31-59 The Latest News from the UK and Around the World Sky News.png
 
The point I am making is that the media are not to blame for the driver shortage and the consequences of that shortage.
We understand the point you are trying to make, however you are still wrong...

This is an entirely manufactured crisis created by our wonderful, World class, not to bettered MSM & dribbling imbeciles masquerading as members of the public who will believe whatever they are told by the Daily Wail, BBC et al.
 

Robme

LE
Can't see it myself
Bringing in the Army is tantamount to admitting he Government have got it wrong and if people think the Government have got it wrong it means as you say they will spark panic buying
2000 Army drivers with no experience of driving civvy artics and going to RDC's do not replace 100,000 drivers.
Army Wagons aren't compatible with store or RDC deliveries

If the Army are brought in at best they'll be moving medicines and goods that are deemed necessary by HMG

I can't see a convoy of Army wagons arriving to deliver chocolate bars or liquorice Allsorts.

This will sort bit's self out as the wages go up the drivers will come back
So the average for a Artic price wise is £149k, and lord know what for a 40,000+ ltr tanker?
Which lunatic employer is going to let an Army Driver anywhere near their trucks?
Also has anybody seen the difference between an Army truck and a civvy? It would take a week to learn the basics let alone the extra license nessassary to drive a petrol tanker? Moreover as far as I am aware the couplings for army tankers are completely different than their civvy equivalents.
And how long, before Army drivers paid what? Realise that civvy tanker drivers earn £50k+ Might that not lead to Army drivers leaving toot-sweet?
Strikes me just like that Dutch Trade Union leader said on the BBC News today as he Poo-Pood the idea that any European HGV driver is going to come to the U.K. for a temporary job? Especially given that European hauliers are currently offering higher wage rates than the U.K.
Also the industry are trying to cover up their systematic failings over the last 21 years, by blaming COVID, Brexit and the tooth fairy when they are responsible for the terms and conditions that they expect HGV drivers to work in.
Incidentally what shortage of HGV drivers are we talking about? According to Government Sources (Shaps?) reported in the Guardian newspaper Saturday there are 600,000 U.K. citizens who currently hold HGV entitlement, but don’t work as truck drivers, for what ever reasons. According to the industry that’s 6 drivers for ever vacancy. But of course the industry don’t want to talk about the burn rate.
In most other industries things like the medical, the tachograph card, the Drivers CPC nessecities to drive in the first place are paid for by the employer also in most cases basic training at the beginning is also paid for by the employer. Most of which in haulage is expected to be paid for by the potential driver?
 
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Robme

LE
We understand the point you are trying to make, however you are still wrong...

This is an entirely manufactured crisis created by our wonderful, World class, not to bettered MSM & dribbling imbeciles masquerading as members of the public who will believe whatever they are told by the Daily Wail, BBC et al.
Well all the MSM is doing is reporting what is happening in the real world.
What the MSM is not doing is reporting the real reasons why 600,000 U.K. citizens holding HGV entitlement refuse to work in the industry. Instead concentrating on the industry blaming anything but there part in this perfect storm?
 
So the average for a Artic price wise is £149k, and lord know what for a 40,000+ ltr tanker?
Which lunatic employer is going to let an Army Driver anywhere near their trucks?
Also has anybody seen the difference between an Army truck and a civvy? It would take a week to learn the basics let alone the extra license nessassary to drive a petrol tanker? Moreover as far as I am aware the couplings for army tankers are completely different than their civvy equivalents.
And how long, before Army drivers paid what? Realise that civvy tanker drivers earn £50k+ Might that not lead to Army drivers leaving toot-sweet?
Strikes me just like that Dutch Trade Union leader said on the BBC News today as he Poo-Pood the idea that any European HGV driver is going to come to the U.K. for a temporary job? Especially given that European hauliers are currently offering higher wage rates than the U.K.
Also the industry are trying to cover up their systematic failings over the last 21 years, by blaming COVID, Brexit and the tooth fairy when they are responsible for the terms and conditions that they expect HGV drivers to work in.
Incidentally what shortage of HGV drivers are we talking about? According to Government Sources (Shaps?) reported in the Guardian newspaper Saturday there are 600,000 U.K. citizens who currently hold HGV entitlement. According to the industry that’s 6 drivers for ever vacancy. But of course the industry don’t want to talk about the burn rate.
In most other industries things like the medical, the tachograph card, the Drivers CPC nessecities to drive in the first place are paid for by the employer also in most cases basic training at the beginning is also paid for by the employer. Most of which in haulage is expected to be paid for by the potential driver?
As I said earlier in the thread, I am one of the 600000 but I left the industry 25 years ago. I don't think I would go back either.
 
We understand the point you are trying to make, however you are still wrong...

This is an entirely manufactured crisis created by our wonderful, World class, not to bettered MSM & dribbling imbeciles masquerading as members of the public who will believe whatever they are told by the Daily Wail, BBC et al.
It is the herd mentality that is wrong...was any fake news actually broadcast?
 
Talkradio have just done a news segment saying the Petrol Retail Asssoiation (PRA) are saying they don't think the army have the skills to operate tankers.

While the army obviously already has tanker drivers in both regular and reserve forms that won't be the issue imho.

I sense the currently closed cartel that is the fuel tanker industry are running scared a truck the prospect that they long established practices may be about to be broken up.

And that can only be a good thing.
On BBC R4 'Today' Programme, one of the cited reasons that the army contribution might be limited was the (in)ability of new drivers to know how to fill the tankers at the depots and to safely discharge fuel at the Service stations - or is this not the case?
 

anglo

LE
It is the herd mentality that is wrong...was any fake news actually broadcast?
Just a little exaggeration added to headlines and articles, example, today, headline on sky,
the words "could last till Christmas" added to the headline on a lead article
How much time have you got, There's plenty more examples,

Edit, It doesn't help having a large number of gullible idiots in the country,
who believe everything they read
 
We understand the point you are trying to make, however you are still wrong...

This is an entirely manufactured crisis created by our wonderful, World class, not to bettered MSM & dribbling imbeciles masquerading as members of the public who will believe whatever they are told by the Daily Wail, BBC et al.

About 48 hours ago, roughly 1% of petrol filling stations had run out of fuel and had to close. Today, it's 90%. That exponential rise is due to the MSM happily spunking stories all over the front pages about how by Christmas we'll all be living in a Mad Max, post-Apocalyptic world where people are murdering each other for the last canned food, bog-roll and half a jerry-can of fuel.

What's most annoying is this is hardly an isolated incident. You only have to look back to the early days of Lockdown to see hordes of idiots stripping supermarkets of everything that wasn't nailed down. They were fighting over toilet paper, for God's sake, even though a dose of the runs isn't a symptom of Kung Flu.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it".
- Men in Black

The MSM know exactly the kind of effect running these stories will have, and do it anyway. Not because they don't care: on the contrary, the more the herd panics, the more stories they have to report on.

If it bleeds, it leads. :rolleyes:
 
Just a little exaggeration added to headlines and articles, example, today, headline on sky,
the words "could last till Christmas" added to the headline on a lead article
How much time have you got, There's plenty more,
I think it is more to do with the general public's short concentration spans and inability to be critical readers - and increasingly, people drawing their 'news' from Social Media. See also anti-maskers, anti-vaxxers, anti-testers...
 

anglo

LE
I think it is more to do with the general public's short concentration spans and inability to be critical readers - and increasingly, people drawing their 'news' from Social Media. See also anti-maskers, anti-vaxxers, anti-testers...
Read the edit to my post, written whist you were typing.
 

syrup

LE
On BBC R4 'Today' Programme, one of the cited reasons that the army contribution might be limited was the (in)ability of new drivers to know how to fill the tankers at the depots and to safely discharge fuel at the Service stations - or is this not the case?

Which is the exact same reason that 5000 drivers from the continent aren't going to help either.
New Tanker driver probably spend the first three weeks of their employment running round with more experienced guys to learn the ropes

Not gonna happen to Private Bloggs fresh out of training
 
OMFG, my goat has been well and truly got!

Just watched some chap with a haulage firm bemoaning the fact that he doesn't have enough drivers any more as so many went home to Eastern Europe. He is also, now, complaining that bigger firms are poaching his drivers as they are paying more. He then goes on to talk about the poor pay and conditions for drivers.

What incenses me is that he is part of the problem.

My wife was working for a firm, a manufacturing firm, until 18 months ago. They have a very high percentage of Eastern European labour. Why? Because they were cheap! She was very worried that the Europeans would just go home, many were even talking about it back in 2017, and they would have no one to make the products. We would have long discussions, at home, about the way forward for that firm, and the answer was glaring obvious, to start apprenticeships for local jobseekers, train them across the various areas of manufacturing and then, at the end, they would have a fully trained workforce, able to turn their hand to all the areas of the shop floor. Of course, this wasn't done, and now they are struggling to make product. Why wasn't it done? Because it would cost. Of course, it's costing more in lost/unfulfilled business now.

The haulier on the TV earlier needs to take a long hard look at himself. This has been a long time coming. All he had to do was start to train, start to pay and improve his working conditions. No need though, the Government will definitely allow cheap lorry drivers into the country won't they?

This has been a long time coming, and don't think that the haulage industry is unique. The care industry has been far too reliant on cheap, overseas labour for far too long. That's the next crisis. Manufacturing and service industries too.

We have a furlough scheme about to end. Thousands and thousands will not be able to return to their old jobs, they need to retrain. Those industries will now need to start to pay the right money.

The minimum wage was a double edged sword. Many employers saw that as a chance to pay as little as possible. Good money for those from overseas, pants for those in the UK. I think those days are behind us.

I've seen many a care home employee doing stuff for minimum wage. Care agencies not paying people to travel between jobs, not even the fuel to get there.

Don't worry, though, it'll all be the Governments fault.

I really want to have a discussion with that haulage firm owner and ask him where he thinks everyone else has gone wrong, but he hasn't!

Pathetic. He, and every other business owner that relied on cheap labour knew years ago it was coming to an end.

Twunts!
 

syrup

LE
OMFG, my goat has been well and truly got!

Just watched some chap with a haulage firm bemoaning the fact that he doesn't have enough drivers any more as so many went home to Eastern Europe. He is also, now, complaining that bigger firms are poaching his drivers as they are paying more. He then goes on to talk about the poor pay and conditions for drivers.

What incenses me is that he is part of the problem.

My wife was working for a firm, a manufacturing firm, until 18 months ago. They have a very high percentage of Eastern European labour. Why? Because they were cheap! She was very worried that the Europeans would just go home, many were even talking about it back in 2017, and they would have no one to make the products. We would have long discussions, at home, about the way forward for that firm, and the answer was glaring obvious, to start apprenticeships for local jobseekers, train them across the various areas of manufacturing and then, at the end, they would have a fully trained workforce, able to turn their hand to all the areas of the shop floor. Of course, this wasn't done, and now they are struggling to make product. Why wasn't it done? Because it would cost. Of course, it's costing more in lost/unfulfilled business now.

The haulier on the TV earlier needs to take a long hard look at himself. This has been a long time coming. All he had to do was start to train, start to pay and improve his working conditions. No need though, the Government will definitely allow cheap lorry drivers into the country won't they?

This has been a long time coming, and don't think that the haulage industry is unique. The care industry has been far too reliant on cheap, overseas labour for far too long. That's the next crisis. Manufacturing and service industries too.

We have a furlough scheme about to end. Thousands and thousands will not be able to return to their old jobs, they need to retrain. Those industries will now need to start to pay the right money.

The minimum wage was a double edged sword. Many employers saw that as a chance to pay as little as possible. Good money for those from overseas, pants for those in the UK. I think those days are behind us.

I've seen many a care home employee doing stuff for minimum wage. Care agencies not paying people to travel between jobs, not even the fuel to get there.

Don't worry, though, it'll all be the Governments fault.

I really want to have a discussion with that haulage firm owner and ask him where he thinks everyone else has gone wrong, but he hasn't!

Pathetic. He, and every other business owner that relied on cheap labour knew years ago it was coming to an end.

Twunts!

Look at the majority of hauliers on t.v. demanding visas for European Workers.
All will be good RHA members
All will not be wanting European drivers but Eastern European Drivers.

when I watch the news and see a haulier on I Google jobs at their firm.
Guaranteed 9/10 times they will be paying in the £9.50 - £11.00 bracket

There is a driver shortage but there is also a shortage of drivers willing to work for peanuts
The supermarkets and fuel suppliers thought they were clever outsourcing the work to the likes of Stobart.
Mr Stobart told them he could do it for £3 per hour per man cheaper and they both rubbed their hands in delight
The man who actually owns Stobart appear on t.v. to show off his helicopter, racehorses, £100,000 car and a £10,000 watch.
He also tells his drivers he can't afford to pay more than £10 an hour do to the supermarkets reducing rates
He forgets he helped drive those rates down to stiff his competitors and get the work and make him a multi millionaire.

It worked well while he had cheap labour but even the Eastern Europeans are chasing the money.
He's now stretched thin and juggling his work across all his contracts.
Problem for him is he now can't attract drivers because the average wage is probably £14 - £15 an hour

So he and the rest either up their wages or give up
 
So the average for a Artic price wise is £149k, and lord know what for a 40,000+ ltr tanker?
Which lunatic employer is going to let an Army Driver anywhere near their trucks?
Also has anybody seen the difference between an Army truck and a civvy? It would take a week to learn the basics let alone the extra license nessassary to drive a petrol tanker? Moreover as far as I am aware the couplings for army tankers are completely different than their civvy equivalents.
And how long, before Army drivers paid what? Realise that civvy tanker drivers earn £50k+ Might that not lead to Army drivers leaving toot-sweet?
Strikes me just like that Dutch Trade Union leader said on the BBC News today as he Poo-Pood the idea that any European HGV driver is going to come to the U.K. for a temporary job? Especially given that European hauliers are currently offering higher wage rates than the U.K.
Also the industry are trying to cover up their systematic failings over the last 21 years, by blaming COVID, Brexit and the tooth fairy when they are responsible for the terms and conditions that they expect HGV drivers to work in.
Incidentally what shortage of HGV drivers are we talking about? According to Government Sources (Shaps?) reported in the Guardian newspaper Saturday there are 600,000 U.K. citizens who currently hold HGV entitlement. According to the industry that’s 6 drivers for ever vacancy. But of course the industry don’t want to talk about the burn rate.
In most other industries things like the medical, the tachograph card, the Drivers CPC nessecities to drive in the first place are paid for by the employer also in most cases basic training at the beginning is also paid for by the employer. Most of which in haulage is expected to be paid for by the potential driver?
I have my C+E. I had ADR, but that expired and I didn't need it. I got my C+E as the unit I was on needed us to pull the generators etc behind 4 and 8 tonners.

I did some temping for HGV firms in my younger days, it was OK, but the pressure to ignore/push driving hours was intense from the managers. It's all about getting that wagon back to the depot and f**k your licence.

Could I do some temping at the weekends? Yup, probably, if I could be bothered to do the CPC.

The reality is, of course, that it's just not worth my while. As a higher rate taxpayer, if I took a weeks leave and temped, with the rate of tax and NI, I'd work till Wednesday afternoon before I saw a penny for myself. With IR35 too, there is just no way that I'm going to do it, even though I quite enjoy being out on the road and out of my office for a while.

Somehow, I think the industry would need to work very hard indeed to tempt many of us back into the cabs.
 

Boris_Johnson

ADC
Moderator
DirtyBAT
This issue has really got my goat.

The media have really outclassed themselves with this one. Let's back up a little... So BP said a small number of its service stations were having to close due to driver shortages. The Daily Mail, plus other MSM such as the BBC, Sky, Guardian, etc jumped on this and peppered their front pages with it.

Why?

While nothing they have printed is factually wrong, they've simply seized a business opportunity to capitalise on. Playing to the availability heuristic of the ever-gullible British public, they know how to drive that fear into us. They've been doing a damned good job of it for the best part of two years now. By availability heuristic I mean, what's more serious - a car crash resulting in fatalities, or a few petrol stations having to close? The former seldom makes the headlines despite over 24,000 serious accidents or fatalities per year, but the sad fact is, it doesn't sell papers, it doesn't generate advertising revenue by clicks nor increase viewers on their 24 hour rolling news channels - not like the latter, at least.

Money talks.

And they know full well their respective social media articles are going to attract thousands of comments too, because the country is still bickering over a decision which was made 5 years ago where seemingly a slightly larger half of the country resented foreigners taking their jobs, and the slightly smaller half of the country wanted to carry on exploiting them.

6 days ago there were no queues on forecourts. Now all of a sudden, Kay Burley is asking some Labour MP how much of it is due to Brexit and who's to blame?

You are, Kay. You and your frankenstein-esque best buddy Beth Rigby, along with Laura "talks out the corner of her mouth" Kussenbussenburger, Nick "child scarer" Robinson, Naga Manshushy, Nick Ferrari and all the other chumps who produce this rubbish and belt-feed it to those viewers who pay your salaries. You cause their misery while you're high-fiving each other in your London bars post broadcast over beating your rivals to the punch and eeking away at their viewing figures. And while your smug, arrogant, self-righteous interview techniques may fool your bosses - the rest of us (and by the rest of us, I mean those who haven't bothered filling up yet and couldn't give a toss if there's no turkeys at Xmas) just roll our eyes and try to deal with the inevitable fallout from your utterly irresponsible careless and even dangerous reporting has caused.

Absolute chumps.

There was fuel 6 days ago. There's still fuel now, only you have to queue for hours to get it. What's changed in that time? Have our ADR drivers all suddenly hung their boots up? Have we ran dry?

Nope. The media have taken a negligible molehill and turned it into a bloody mountain. I just wish one of these spineless MPs or Industry reps being interviewed would actually have the balls to call therm out over it.

Rant over.

_120676529_front.jpg
 
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syrup

LE
This issue has really got my goat.

The media have really outclassed themselves with this one. Let's back up a little... So BP said a small number of its service stations were having to close due to driver shortages. The Daily Mail, plus other MSM such as the BBC, Sky, Guardian, etc jumped on this and peppered their front pages with it.

Why?

While nothing they have printed is factually wrong, they've simply seized a business opportunity to capitalise on. Playing to the availability heuristic of the ever-gullible British public, they know how to drive that fear into us. They've been doing a damned good job of it for the best part of two years now. By availability heuristic I mean, what's more serious - a car crash resulting in fatalities, or a few petrol stations having to close? The former seldom makes the headlines despite over 24,000 serious accidents or fatalities per year, but the sad fact is, it doesn't sell papers, it doesn't generate advertising revenue by clicks nor increase viewers on their 24 hour rolling news channels - not like the latter, at least.

Money talks.

And they know full well their respective social media articles are going to attract thousands of comments too, because the country is still bickering over a decision which was made 5 years ago where seemingly a slightly larger half of the country resented foreigners taking their jobs, and the slightly smaller half of the country wanted to carry on exploiting them.

6 days ago there were no queues on forecourts. Now all of a sudden, Kay Burley is asking some Labour MP how much of it is due to Brexit and who's to blame?

You are, Kay. You and your frankenstein-esque best buddy Beth Rigby, along with Laura "talks out the corner of her mouth" Kussenbussenburger, Nick "child scarer" Robinson, Naga Manshushy, Nick Ferrari and all the other chumps who produce this rubbish and belt-feed it to those viewers who pay your salaries. You cause their misery while you're high-fiving each other in your London bars post broadcast over beating your rivals to the punch and eeking away at their viewing figures. And while your smug, arrogant, self-righteous interview techniques may fool your bosses - the rest of us (and by the rest of us, I mean those who haven't bothered filling up yet and couldn't give a toss if there's no turkeys at Xmas) just roll our eyes and try to deal with the inevitable fallout from your utterly irresponsible careless and even dangerous reporting has caused.

Absolute chumps.

There was fuel 6 days ago. There's still furl now, only you have to queue for hours to get it. What's changed in that time? Have our ADR drivers all suddenly hung their boots up? Have we ran dry?

Nope. The media have taken a negligible molehill and turned it into a bloody mountain. I just wish one of these spineless MPs or Industry reps bring interviewed would actually have the balls to call therm out over it.

Rant over.

View attachment 606928


Works well for everyone

RHA can demand cheap Eastern European Labour to keep the £10 per hour employers happy
Fuel companies that couldn't give fuel away during lockdown are making a mint.
Driver get a load of overtime in

Shops will go down the same route

That Christmas tat won't panic buy itself you know
 

Robme

LE
As I said earlier in the thread, I am one of the 600000 but I left the industry 25 years ago. I don't think I would go back either.
Exactamondo, why would any sane person willingly return to an industry which ranks as the worst employer in the U.K.?
 

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