Dutch state 'responsible for three Srebrenica deaths'

#2
Why don't they sue the Serbs?
That would set a legal precedent in allowing the application of common sense.
But I'd hazard a guess that Serbia doesn't provide much legal aid for those who'd want to sue Serbia.
 
#3
No doubt that this will open the floodgates for compensation in Holland.
More fool them. Still could bugger the UN as countries might be a bit more hesitant to volunteer their forces if they'll not only have to spend millions at the time but even more 20 years later.
 
#6
it was the french although what a short battalion was meant to do when an entire countrys been handed machetes not exactly sure.

yougo was bound to kick off when tito went lots of ethnic grudges kept under the surface
 

OldSnowy

LE
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#7
AK is astonishing, and could be dismissed as a throbber of the highest order, outdoing even Peter Dow at his astonishing best, but for one thing.

There are plenty of people in the world - especially in the Middle East - who think (in the loosest possible meaning of the world) in the same way. Plenty of people there believe the Protocol of the Elders of Zion is a real book, and if they believe that, they'll beleive anything - and they do!

Sad, but true.
 
#8
AK is astonishing, and could be dismissed as a throbber of the highest order, outdoing even Peter Dow at his astonishing best, but for one thing.

There are plenty of people in the world - especially in the Middle East - who think (in the loosest possible meaning of the world) in the same way. Plenty of people there believe the Protocol of the Elders of Zion is a real book, and if they believe that, they'll believe anything - and they do!

Sad, but true.
Your analysis of the situation is indisputable. Whoever this A_K is, it is certainly not in tune with the rest of the human race maybe not even a member of the same. No matter what subject it contributes to it fucks it up, causing the intelligent ones to berate and beat it mercilessly. The time has come for someone, somewhere in our ranks to say "enough is enough - **** off." Do not think it could be made any clearer, even the dreaded Peter Dow got the message in the end. There again finding someone living in a mud hut constructed from putrefied yak shit and silage with 40 million AA batteries outside should not be difficult.
 
#9
Lets see, they (the Dutch) got there to, but failed...well, shit happens. Given the "chain of command" at that time, the bureaucracy involved in calling just a tiny little airstrike war remarkable...no wonder they failed.

But anyway. We have a Lesson learned:NEVER GO OUT THE HELP, esp. with blue helmets.
You'll only get sued at the end...
 
#10
Dutch,Belgian,French,,,,,,,,,,does it matter they are all useless tw##s anyway,,The way these countries fight a war is,,if you can't win then collaborate.
They have plenty of form.
 
#11
Lets see, they (the Dutch) got there to, but failed...well, shit happens. Given the "chain of command" at that time, the bureaucracy involved in calling just a tiny little airstrike war remarkable...no wonder they failed.

But anyway. We have a Lesson learned:NEVER GO OUT THE HELP, esp. with blue helmets.
You'll only get sued at the end...
Wasn't there a suggestion that the French had a hand in ensuring that no airstrikes against Bosnian Serb forces around Srebrenica took place? I read that the official Dutch report into Srebrenica highlighted the fact that the Dutchbat CO - Karremans - had his repeated requests for air support turned down....by French General Janvier.

Whilst attributing blame to the Dutchbat troops at Srebrenica, it does need to be borne in mind that the concept, let alone the reality, of the UN 'Safe Areas' in Bosnia was a dangerous joke, based as it was on a wholly non-existent 'respect' for the UN itself.

Even if there had been the will to fight on the part of Dutchbat - or more specifically the Dutch Government - there was so much confusion over ROE and who was actually supposed to be in charge at Srebrenica, it seems unlikely that a lightly-armed infantry battalion could have offered any defence against the VRS forces in the area. That said, the Dutch performance at Srebrenica was abysmal, and I cannot imagine another UN battalion behaving as ineffectively - I have read a number of the eyewitness accounts and testimonies from Srebrenica and it seems that many if not all of the Dutch UN troops were either indifferent or literally chose to look the other way as the initial killings took place.

As an aside, can anyone throw any light on the compositon of Dutchbat at Srebrenica - was it a composite infantry battalion, a specific Dutch unit, and was it composed of regulars or conscripts?
 
#12
Bit of a thread revival, but interesting to note that today the Dutch state has been found liable:
[h=2]Netherlands to pay compensation over Srebrenica massacre | World news | theguardian.com[/h]
The Netherlands has been ordered to pay compensation for the deaths of Bosnian Muslims in the 1995 Srebrenica massacre in a ruling that opens up the Dutch state to compensation claims from relatives of the rest of the 8,000 men and youths who died.
The Dutch court ruling held that in the chaos of the Serb takeover of Srebrenica, UN commanders no longer had control of the troops on the ground and "effective control" therefore reverted to Dutch authorities in the Hague.
For some more background, there are a couple of interesting ARRSE threads:

http://www.arrse.co.uk/multinational-hq/46376-anger-over-dutch-srebrenica-medal.html

http://www.arrse.co.uk/current-affa...rebrenica-there-too-many-gays-dutch-army.html ( p.5 onwards )
 
#15
The human rights lawyer Liesbeth Zegveld, who represented the Bosnian families, called the ruling historic because it established that countries involved in UN missions can be found legally responsible for crimes, despite the UN's far-reaching immunity from prosecution. "People participating in UN missions are not always covered by the UN flag," she said.
Slightly odd way of putting it, because there is surely no question of the Netherlands having been found responsible for crimes in this case.

Rather, that country's Supreme Court has decided that the State has CIVIL liability for their peacekeepers' failures to prevent crimes by others.

I wonder what the UK Supreme Court would have decided in similar circumstances.
 
#16
#17
Didn't the French go out with rifles but no ammo at the time?

A French CO was sent home after setting some of his tanks loose in retaliation to the throat cutting of some of his lads, who were manning a sangar in Sarajevo.

irlsgt, you should watch 'Warriors' with that chap from Hornblower in it.
 
#20
BBC News - Srebrenica: Dutch soldier scarred from Mladic attack

"What can seven guys do with only one pistol, one hand grenade, an anti-tank missile and nothing more?"

What would you have done in the same situation I wonder - except accomplish a glorious heroic death.

The ROE IIRC were shite to say the least, plus ammo scalings weren't great. Any of this sound familiar?
The ROE were robust enough if your own troops were coming under effective fire, but if the people being murdered were not yours, then the official line was to 'observe and report'.

The only way round this was to put your troops in the way so that they felt sufficiently threatened to justify opening fire. (Edited to add: this got the epithet of 'going beyond the mandate' and I think was seen by those on the ground as an expression of natural justice and cultural values).

In Srebrenica this would have led to a lot of dead Dutchmen on top of the Muslims.

The mandate was weak and the UN response was under-resourced, relying on 'respect' for the values espoused by the international community. Mladic called their bluff because he could. (All in my view.)
 

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