Dutch spies helped GCHQ break Argentine crypto during Falklands War

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
I am not sure why everyone is getting so worked up about what Glue Sniffer is saying.

It seems to me that he is only stating the obvious i.e. that even in the worst dictatorships (I will exclude Kampuchea) the vast majority of people simply keep their heads down and get on with their lives, they go to work, they get married, they have kids, some of them have the misfortune to catch the eye of the gauleiter/commissar/jefe/red guard or whatever and it's rough for them but mostly everyone just gets on with it.

They don't like it, they would prefer to live in a different regime, but for the vast and overwhelming majority of people they put up with it. Only a very tiny and remarkable minority do anything to fight against the regime, until it starts falling apart and then they flood the town square cheering on the rebels/liberators.

That's a pretty unremarkable statement of fact, can't see why anyone would get annoyed by it.
They don't accept it, they're cowed into it.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
I was born in Isleworth.

I'll tell you why it is twinned with places in Pakistan ( some justification) and Palestine (none whatsoever) is because the London Borough of Hounslow, the local council is communist-run Labour, and has always has been so. They pander to immigrants the left-wing snowflakes on a daily basis.

In nearby Hounslow you have Steve Biko drive or similar.

Funny how none of the victims of communism are honoured in any way in the socialist People's Republic of Hounslow.
Have you suggested a Horst Wessel Avenue ?
 
I was born in Isleworth.

I'll tell you why it is twinned with places in Pakistan ( some justification) and Palestine (none whatsoever) is because the London Borough of Hounslow, the local council is communist-run Labour, and has always has been so. They pander to immigrants the left-wing snowflakes on a daily basis.

In nearby Hounslow you have Steve Biko drive or similar.

Funny how none of the victims of communism are honoured in any way in the socialist People's Republic of Hounslow.
That well-known ex-pat Scouser Steve Biko has a street in the People's Democratic Republic of Liverpool named for him too.


His wiki page understandably omits his early membership of the Beatles and his skills at fencing Morris Minor wheels, focussing on his opposition to the Nazi loving South African regime.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
Whatever, it doesn't detract from the simple statement of fact about human nature that the poster is making.
No china, definitely not "whatever."

Making a conscious decision based on the rights one has as opposed to being forced under threat to do what you're told are actually very different.

It can be directly compare it to being informed I should begin a hunger strike for a set of political demands or my family would be taken seriously ill.
 
No china, definitely not "whatever."

Making a conscious decision based on the rights one has as opposed to being forced under threat to do what you're told are actually very different.

It can be directly compare it to being informed I should begin a hunger strike for a set of political demands or my family would be taken seriously ill.
You over-estimate how much thought the average person in any country gives to the political regime they live under. We assume that everyone living in Iran or Myanmar or wherever is walking around all day cowed and in fear of being denounced to the secret police, it would shock you if you actually went to these countries (rather than relying on western reporting about them) to discover that no one really gives a fiddler's fart one way or t'other.

All their lives they have lived under their particular regime, it is as much part of their lives as rain is to Irish people or crap food is to Scottish people, it's just one of those things that you don't really give much thought to, until perhaps some foreigner brings it to your attention.

I have visited countless dictatorships in my life and I never saw people nervously looking over their shoulder as they walked down the street or running home to lock their doors in terror that the regime was sending its heavies out to round them up for the gulag. In fact I have had great crack in many countries that would be described in the BBC as vicious dictatorships, drinking and having a laugh with local people who were not remotely bothered by their government but rather just got on with their lives like pretty much everyone else in the world.
 
You over-estimate how much thought the average person in any country gives to the political regime they live under. We assume that everyone living in Iran or Myanmar or wherever is walking around all day cowed and in fear of being denounced to the secret police, it would shock you if you actually went to these countries (rather than relying on western reporting about them) to discover that no one really gives a fiddler's fart one way or t'other.

All their lives they have lived under their particular regime, it is as much part of their lives as rain is to Irish people or crap food is to Scottish people, it's just one of those things that you don't really give much thought to, until perhaps some foreigner brings it to your attention.

I have visited countless dictatorships in my life and I never saw people nervously looking over their shoulder as they walked down the street or running home to lock their doors in terror that the regime was sending its heavies out to round them up for the gulag. In fact I have had great crack in many countries that would be described in the BBC as vicious dictatorships, drinking and having a laugh with local people who were not remotely bothered by their government but rather just got on with their lives like pretty much everyone else in the world.
Erm, we are talking of Argentina here. Los Desaparacidos, those who were taken by the state and never seen again until a few mass graves were found, numbered some 20 to 30 thousand. Simply taken away and disposed of between 1975 and 1983 because they said something against the military dictatorship.

I think you are under-estimating how much thought the average person gave to the political regime in place there.

And you've visited "countless" dictatorships? Are there really "countless" dictatorships in the world? Even when the good old USSR was up and running I doubt they were countless and I also doubt you visited them somehow.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
You over-estimate how much thought the average person in any country gives to the political regime they live under.
You're good at making assumptions, but I take it you've met many from all social strata in order to judge the "average person."

We assume that everyone living in Iran or Myanmar or wherever is walking around all day cowed and in fear of being denounced to the secret police,
We don't, you do.

it would shock you
You know nothing about me yet you believe you can judge my state of mind.
It illuminates why you brush away facts you dislike with a youthful, "whatever."

if you actually went to these countries (rather than relying on western reporting about them)4 to discover that no one really gives a fiddler's fart one way or t'other.
More assumptions, if I didn't know better I'd imagine I was having a discussion with a newly matriculated student.

All their lives they have lived under their particular regime,
Depending on the country and the individual some will have, some won't.
Equally many will have had their lives shortened by their "chosen" regime.

I have visited countless dictatorships in my life
You visiting dictatorships doesn't surprise me, what does is that you're so well travelled that you can't even remember how many, much less which ones.
Or is it a numeracy problem ?
 

Dwarf

LE
You over-estimate how much thought the average person in any country gives to the political regime they live under. We assume that everyone living in Iran or Myanmar or wherever is walking around all day cowed and in fear of being denounced to the secret police, it would shock you if you actually went to these countries (rather than relying on western reporting about them) to discover that no one really gives a fiddler's fart one way or t'other.

All their lives they have lived under their particular regime, it is as much part of their lives as rain is to Irish people or crap food is to Scottish people, it's just one of those things that you don't really give much thought to, until perhaps some foreigner brings it to your attention.

I have visited countless dictatorships in my life and I never saw people nervously looking over their shoulder as they walked down the street or running home to lock their doors in terror that the regime was sending its heavies out to round them up for the gulag. In fact I have had great crack in many countries that would be described in the BBC as vicious dictatorships, drinking and having a laugh with local people who were not remotely bothered by their government but rather just got on with their lives like pretty much everyone else in the world.
I was actually going to say that at least GS admits what he would do up front. And yes, both he and yourself are correct that most people just get on with their lives. We have examples of the Warsaw Pact countries on our doorstep. It didn't stop most people wanting change but unable to do much about it. When the opportunity came to change the regime then people put their weight behind it.
However I think people take issue more with his tone which comes over as apologist, than his position.
In the case of Argentina- to get back on track - opposition even vocal could see you taking an offshore swim. When the Junta invaded* there was a great deal of support for the action. It was vocal and there were crowds outside La Casa Rosa chanting quite often.
When the diplomats tried to convince Galtieri that he was on a sticky wicket he would appear reasonable then go out on the balcony, drink in the adulation, and change his mind again.
After their surrender the disappointment, especially after being told they were winning, allied to the shocking economic state of the country made the regime's continuity impossible. It needed a massive kick in the fundament to change though.
As in most places.


* A few years back I joined in a thread on the argie arrse, zona militar, and one of the posters took issue over my use of the word invasion. He used disembarkation because the Islands were argentine illegally occupied so therefore no invasion.
In Spanish they use the words invasion and disembarkation a little differently to English.
They use the term disembarkation over Normandy much as we use the word landings. This implies legality, taking back what is yours. Hence the massive disappointment at the full time score.
 
You're good at making assumptions, but I take it you've met many from all social strata in order to judge the "average person."


We don't, you do.

You know nothing about me yet you believe you can judge my state of mind.
It illuminates why you brush away facts you dislike with a youthful, "whatever."


More assumptions, if I didn't know better I'd imagine I was having a discussion with a newly matriculated student.


Depending on the country and the individual some will have, some won't.
Equally many will have had their lives shortened by their "chosen" regime.


You visiting dictatorships doesn't surprise me, what does is that you're so well travelled that you can't even remember how many, much less which ones.
Or is it a numeracy problem ?
Yawn.
 

Dwarf

LE
. Simply taken away and disposed of between 1975 and 1983 because they said something against the military dictatorship.
And sometimes not even then, viz my argie acquaintance's sister who did keep her head down and tried to bother no-one.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
Erm, we are talking of Argentina here. Los Desaparacidos, those who were taken by the state and never seen again until a few mass graves were found, numbered some 20 to 30 thousand. Simply taken away and disposed of between 1975 and 1983 because they said something against the military dictatorship.

I think you are under-estimating how much thought the average person gave to the political regime in place there.

And you've visited "countless" dictatorships? Are there really "countless" dictatorships in the world? Even when the good old USSR was up and running I doubt they were countless and I also doubt you visited them somehow.
Fair enough if we are referring only to Argentina in the 1970s, but the point being made was about life in general under dictatorships and the discussion ranged from Nazi Germany to Iraq under Saddam.

But even in Argentina it must be remembered that for the most part (I stress for the most part, there were many exceptions) the regime wasn't simply randomly killing thousands of people just for shits and giggles. The people who were targeted were for the most part (for the most part) specifically identified "enemies" of the regime. They were leftists, people involved in the media, trades unions, universities etc. Now before anyone accuses me of trying to justify the junta, I am not, it's was a horrific regime full of vile, murdering, fascist scumbags but for the vast and overwhelming majority of people in Argentina, those who weren't involved in leftist politics life went on as normal, they drank, socialised, flirted, went to the beach, had kids etc.

I find the same in Indonesia, Suharto ruled that country for 35 years with an iron fist, he killed tens of thousands of enemies of his regime, but if you look for someone in Indonesia today to ask about their fear and trepidation living under such a murderous regime you will be hard pressed to find anyone other than those in the minuscule minority who actively worked against his rule, everyone else has a perfectly rosey view of life back then.

As you clearly wish to be ana-l about my use of the word "countless", I merely used it because I couldn't off hand think how many, it is probably around a dozen or so.
 

Le_addeur_noir

On ROPS
On ROPs
You over-estimate how much thought the average person in any country gives to the political regime they live under. We assume that everyone living in Iran or Myanmar or wherever is walking around all day cowed and in fear of being denounced to the secret police, it would shock you if you actually went to these countries (rather than relying on western reporting about them) to discover that no one really gives a fiddler's fart one way or t'other.

All their lives they have lived under their particular regime, it is as much part of their lives as rain is to Irish people or crap food is to Scottish people, it's just one of those things that you don't really give much thought to, until perhaps some foreigner brings it to your attention.

I have visited countless dictatorships in my life and I never saw people nervously looking over their shoulder as they walked down the street or running home to lock their doors in terror that the regime was sending its heavies out to round them up for the gulag. In fact I have had great crack in many countries that would be described in the BBC as vicious dictatorships, drinking and having a laugh with local people who were not remotely bothered by their government but rather just got on with their lives like pretty much everyone else in the world.
Many years ago I was sitting in an internet café in Vientiane ( capital of Laos) reading an article on the BBC on, er Laos. It was a work of utter fiction, quite conceivably written over drinks ( paid for on expenses) in some girlie bar in Bangkok. I actually complained about it, but received no reply. Quelle surprise, did I hear someone say?.
 

Slime

LE
You over-estimate how much thought the average person in any country gives to the political regime they live under. We assume that everyone living in Iran or Myanmar or wherever is walking around all day cowed and in fear of being denounced to the secret police, it would shock you if you actually went to these countries (rather than relying on western reporting about them) to discover that no one really gives a fiddler's fart one way or t'other.

All their lives they have lived under their particular regime, it is as much part of their lives as rain is to Irish people or crap food is to Scottish people, it's just one of those things that you don't really give much thought to, until perhaps some foreigner brings it to your attention.

I have visited countless dictatorships in my life and I never saw people nervously looking over their shoulder as they walked down the street or running home to lock their doors in terror that the regime was sending its heavies out to round them up for the gulag. In fact I have had great crack in many countries that would be described in the BBC as vicious dictatorships, drinking and having a laugh with local people who were not remotely bothered by their government but rather just got on with their lives like pretty much everyone else in the world.
As their aren’t actually that many dictatorships can you name those you have visited?

The word ‘countless’ seems quite a lot imho.
Your use of a dozen or so is simply backtracking.
As an example, my other half has visited a few countries, but wouldnt call them countless, but could easily run off twenty five to thirty without needing to think too much.
 
Well it seems the good Reverend wasn't whiter than white as far as the Nazis are concerned. A member of the Freikorp and an early supporter of the Nazi party.

Pastor Niemoller
Aware of his history, a man of his time and should be judged on his whole life. Recognising that something you support has gone awry and deciding to speak out is a good thing surely?
 
The anti-British treason of the BBC was couvert in 1982, now in 2020 it is almost ouvert.
Load of pish, you mentalists are dragging this site down.
 
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