Dutch ban the burqua

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by mongoose9, Nov 17, 2006.

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  1. Surprising, they are thought of as liberal what is the UK then?
  2. The Cloggies don't mind you puffing on a joint, they're quite up front about sex and aren't desperately concerned about things like standards of dress.

    In every other respect they are considerably less "liberal" than the average Brit.

    (Sweeping generalisation obviously)
  3. Intresting point, could the EU courts over turn this if it was implimented on Civil rights grounds?

  4. No the EU have no power on human rights thank goodness, not for want of trying in the EUConstitutions (thrown out). If the ECHR find a violation the dutch will say 'so what'.
  5. Rayc

    Rayc RIP

    It is interesting that under the burkha, quite a few women wear exquisite and expensive dresses.

    I wonder whatever for?
  6. Hhmm, I'm conflicted on this issue. On the one hand I think it helps get rid of something that acts as a barrier between people and possibly integration, on the other legislating what you can and can't wear religiously simply because you don't like it, tyranny of the majority, doesn't sit well with me either. I'm going to have to do some more reading on this and the local situation first before I can really decide.
  7. This has been on the cards since the murder of theo van gogh in my opinion.

    The dutch arn't as tollerent as they used to be.

    I don't agree with the ban.

    I think with banks stopping people entering the premises wearing a veil should be allowed, I think that proffesions and schools that have a dress code or uniform should be allowed to sack/dismiss people who wear veils.

    But I don't think the government of any country should dictate how people dress in public, it's all about common sense, a restriction in certain circumstances is common sense in my opinion, an all out ban isn't.
  8. BuggerAll

    BuggerAll LE Reviewer Book Reviewer

    Mark1234, I agree with you - its not really the business of the Gov't to tell us how to dress in public, but it must make sure that private businesses, employers etc are not intimidated into allowing people to wear masks on thier premises etc.

    The Gov't should also take the lead in explaining to the minorities who wish to do this that although they are not banned it is generally considered to be 'socially' unacceptable and they should not be surprized if they encounter hostility.

    There was talk a few weeks ago about banning masks on demonstrations (riots) etc. This is slightly different. If people want the right to exericise free speech then they have the obligation (or duty) to show us thier faces. This would also cover the burka clad who wish to riot.
  9. I should get my misses one, very fetching
  10. The essential point here is that a nation as liberal and free thinking as the Dutch have hardened thier stance since the murder of two prominent citizens by Muslim Extremists. They have hardened their position. Contrast that to the Spanish, who acquiesced after the Madrid bombings, which in a backwards way justified them. If a country such as the Dutch react like this,it proves to me that, alongside the ban in France and the debate in theUK the battle lines are being drawn. And I don't mean about th Burqa.
  11. Alternatively, it could be viewed that the effects of increasing 'islamisation' (the increasing anti-liberal attitude of islamic immigants) of what was once the most liberal of countries, has converesly led to the liberals reverting to iliberal laws to control the anti-liberal minority.

    Perhaps this was the goal of the islamic hardliners who had an eye for the long-game???

    Or maybe i'm talking shite :D

  12. Agreed to a certain extent. It also shows how the far right are exploiting the debates and adding to Islamophobia aswell.

    This will be an interesting one to follow. I can see a few of the pro hijab types moving in and challenging this law. The problem is it could be seen as a breach of the ECHR on a number of counts. Freedom of religion is the one that most will think of but could also be as an article 8 breach of respect for private and family life. Some will probably argue an article 14, freedom from discrimination breach aswell but I don't see that one standing to the test as it doesn't just specify muslim women and burkas etc.

    Most human rights aren't absolute, meaning that deviations are usually allowed from them in certain circumstances. The proportionality test is usually applied in these cases.

    A ban in schools, banks maybe even public tranport could probably be said to be proportional but an all out ban in public, I doubt, will not.

    Will be interesting to see how th ECtHR react to this if somebody takes it there. The decision will leave a precedent that will more than likely be used by most Council of Europe countries to use as guidelines as to how far they can push the ban.

    edited for mong quoting
  13. I've seen your missus and i agree with you.
  14. Good on em.