Dune 2021 - fan discussion

[dogmeat]

You have a good point there, I don't like Clancy, Childs or others like that because the dialogue crowds out the narrative. Screenplays masquerading as novels.
I like storytellers and am not ashamed to admit that my favourites are Bernard Cornwell and GMF.

The problem I have with Cornwell is that he only has one story: all he does is translocate the dramatis personae in each series, but tells essentially the same (episodic) tale of a flawed hero manipulated by a scheming superior.

At least Herbert's arc doesn't repeat itself.

 

[samain11]

The problem I have with Cornwell is that he only has one story: all he does is translocate the dramatis personae in each series, but tells essentially the same (episodic) tale of a flawed hero manipulated by a scheming superior.

At least Herbert's arc doesn't repeat itself.

I agree, but I enjoy them anyway. Mind you Flashman is in a class of his own.

 

[samain11]

I read Dune some 40 years ago, I have worked in seismic since. I spent 9 years in the south of Libya around the Chad/Niger border mainly. The concept of Dune calls to me, the desert is a dodgy place but can be beautiful.

 

[Sarastro]

You have a good point there, I don't like Clancy, Childs or others like that because the dialogue crowds out the narrative. Screenplays masquerading as novels.
I like storytellers and am not ashamed to admit that my favourites are Bernard Cornwell and GMF.

The two aren't necessarily exclusive: Terry Pratchett wrote tons of dialogue in short prose books without it getting in the way of narrative, worldbuilding or character. Some plays or play-like films are way better at telling a story than novels (look at David Mamet, Peter Shaffer or Aaron Sorkin).

The unfortunate reality is that there is a metric ton of shit out there, because the gatekeepers of the industries (publishing, theatre etc) are a small, unrepresentative and not very good clique, and with the exception of films, their business models protect them from failure.

 

[Boumer]

Whilst I am down for the Sardukar dropping the beats, I have to admit that this has replaced the Adhan as my morning alarm tone.

 

[Sarastro]

Whilst I am down for the Sardukar dropping the beats, I have to admit that this has replaced the Adhan as my morning alarm tone.

Nobody seems to have noticed yet that both samples are in harmony. Sardukar / Atredies Pipes big beat mix is next up.

EDIT: I'm tempted to do this myself. Open two screens and click quickly:


from 1:40


from 0:11

At the same time

 

[Sarastro]

@Boumer and you thought I was joking

ATREDIESKAR

https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/media/atredieskar-rough-mp3.8723/

 

[jockparamedic]

Seen it today. Thoughrouly enjoyed it. As a big fan of the original I thought it stood up. Looking forward to part 2.

 

[Sarastro]

Felt I had to:

ATREDIESKAR BEATS

https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/media/atredieskar-beats-mp3.8724/

 

[Boumer]

I'm two deep breaths of Spice in, @Sarastro is on the decks, there is much fear in the universe, but here in the Sietch there is only love.

 

[Sarastro]

I'm two deep breaths of Spice in, @Sarastro is on the decks, there is much fear in the universe, but here in the Sietch there is only love.

Well if you're out in the middle of the desert you want to have a good melange trip.

If you want the music for the bad trip, ask David Lynch.

 

[samain11]

That might be because GRRM should have been a screenwriter / playwright, at least in another age when anyone have a shit about those roles. Great at character, very good at plotting, good turn of phrase, but cannot write prose or edit for shit. Any book you end up skim reading between the good bits because it's just so damn long and boring, is going to have poor retention.

Funnily enough, this profile also applied almost exactly to Tolkien. You can see the few bits where he worked hard to write a good paragraph or line, but it clearly did not come naturally or in volume.

Very interesting post, I am re-reading Michener's " The Covenant" at the moment. His books are mighty tomes but tend to stick in my mind much more than Tolkien or JRR. I liked Chesapeake a lot, but got bored with almost all the others except "Alaska".
I have a particular affection for any writing concerning the anglo-celt exploration and colonisation of the USA, mountain men etc and would be grateful for any recommendations.
I recently watched "Jeremiah Johnson" as an old film and thoroughly enjoyed it, it is a pity that films like these would not even be commissioned these days.

 

[RaiderBoat]

Having watched both, the first one in the theatre, I thoroughly enjoyed the 2021 version better. Easier to follow, coherent story line as apposed to popping all over, and great sets. Agreed that the young Atrides is a limp dick.
Even the high pitched bagpipes ruled.

I was surprised when it ended and want part two RFN!
(I guess we’ve already seen P2 as we finally left Afghanistan…)

 

[alfred_the_great]

Just seen it - ace.

Although I always had Jessica as much steelier than presented this time.

 

[CutLunchCommando]

Just seen it - ace.

Although I always had Jessica as much steelier than presented this time.

As a Bene Gesserit would she not be adept at putting up a deceptive front? Perhaps the steel will show in part 2?

 

[Werewolf]

I'm two deep breaths of Spice in, @Sarastro is on the decks, there is much fear in the universe, but here in the Sietch there is only love.

Haven't read the books, and I've tried very hard to erase the memory of the God-awful Lynch movie I made the mistake of watching. Am I correct in saying the majority of fighting in the Dune-verse is done with edged weapons, conversely because personal shields are so advanced they make most forms of projectile weapons obsolete?

I read somewhere that the fight choreography is based on Kali/Escrima; that gif resembles the traditional salutation used before Kali practitioners spar etc.

 

[Boumer]

Haven't read the books, and I've tried very hard to erase the memory of the God-awful Lynch movie I made the mistake of watching. Am I correct in saying the majority of fighting in the Dune-verse is done with edged weapons, conversely because personal shields are so advanced they make most forms of projectile weapons obsolete?

I read somewhere that the fight choreography is based on Kali/Escrima; that gif resembles the traditional salutation used before Kali practitioners spar etc.

I think someone mentioned that about the Krysknife, it resembled a knife from a South East Asian fighting system.

 

[Werewolf]

I think someone mentioned that about the Krysknife, it resembled a knife from a South East Asian fighting system.

Even the name sounds similar,

 

[naffnickname]

I think that the Lynch jessica was ar too much a one-state mystic nobility protrayal: it went with the majestic, visually rich but crammed and therefore confusing end result. It never really conveyed the elemental fight for survival at every level that the book presented

The book has space to build the layers of panic , entrapment and forboding as the various layers of threat and politics come to a disastrous hanging thread of two last surviving Atreides, about to possibly be split by their divergent potential allegiances. Initially I thought Villeneuve's Jessica was a tad over-wrought but actually it was a finely balanced performance which very quickly made me reassess the - essentially - extinction level situation the characters faced at that part of the narrative (gaining a new angle on a book you have read repeatedly is a delight). They are puppets to greater plans and know it. Their chance of success is slim and understood but could be glorious - the Lynch film really only makes it a big power squabble among the aristocracy. The subtlety of the affection (rather than Annis's romanticism) and self containment before power counterpointed it nicely: public control, the understated physicality of an established couple against standing on a crumbling precipice of fate in a high wind.

I am looking forward to the contrast in performance in part two as Ferguson's Jessica builds a powerbase and forges her own web of new loyalties. She's good.

(I am very much enjoying the scale and subtley of the Veillenuve offering against the packed-in melodrama of the Lynch version).

edit Trypos, bothering to find out the actress's name

 

[Goatman]

Haven't read the books, and I've tried very hard to erase the memory of the God-awful Lynch movie I made the mistake of watching. Am I correct in saying the majority of fighting in the Dune-verse is done with edged weapons, conversely because personal shields are so advanced they make most forms of projectile weapons obsolete?

I read somewhere that the fight choreography is based on Kali/Escrima; that gif resembles the traditional salutation used before Kali practitioners spar etc.

Correct.

There is a scene where Paul has to fight a Fremen challenger (Jamis).

Because he has been trained since childhood to fight against an opponent who is shield-protected ,he automatically slows the killing blow - to allow for the Shield effect.

The leader of the Fremen troop (Stilgar) takes this for plain cruelty - and wonders if he has allowed a scorpion into the family.

Speculative fan piece here: