Dublin University OTC and the 1916 Easter Uprising

[ches]

I was in Dublin this weekend & a fine city it is & was met with a funny & hospitable people. A deep contrast to the majority i came into contact with north of the border all those years ago.
I did some of the tourists tours & was struck by how deeply the Queens visit a few years ago built some new bridges that all who mentioned it this weekend felt were much needed & very welcomed. I found that quite moving if i'm honest, especially when heard from a proud Irishwomen passionate about her country.

What i can't come to terms with with regard to the uprising is the deliberate attempt, while we were at war & at that time not making much progress whilst absorbing horrendous casualties, to undermine the war effort. The lack of popular support highlights the futility of it all to me & the following 80+ years of misery on that island are rooted in a shared history going back to Elizabeth I. Its a crying shame that two nations who actually share so much were so distant & unable to resolve differences that in real terms weren't really that different.

To attack a nation already at war to me is traitorous & it was obvious that defeat & probable execution would be the result. The whole thing over the last 100 years seems an unforgivable fcuking waste of blood & treasure.

 

[AULD_SWEAT]

Ruth Dudley Edwards has a book coming out shortly.'The Seven.The Lives and Legacies of the Founding Fathers of the Irish Republic'. Should be a hoot...

 

[MoleBath]

I was in Dublin this weekend & a fine city it is & was met with a funny & hospitable people. A deep contrast to the majority i came into contact with north of the border all those years ago.
I did some of the tourists tours & was struck by how deeply the Queens visit a few years ago built some new bridges that all who mentioned it this weekend felt were much needed & very welcomed. I found that quite moving if i'm honest, especially when heard from a proud Irishwomen passionate about her country.

What i can't come to terms with with regard to the uprising is the deliberate attempt, while we were at war & at that time not making much progress whilst absorbing horrendous casualties, to undermine the war effort. The lack of popular support highlights the futility of it all to me & the following 80+ years of misery on that island are rooted in a shared history going back to Elizabeth I. Its a crying shame that two nations who actually share so much were so distant & unable to resolve differences that in real terms weren't really that different.

To attack a nation already at war to me is traitorous & it was obvious that defeat & probable execution would be the result. The whole thing over the last 100 years seems an unforgivable fcuking waste of blood & treasure.

Revolutionaries often over estimate their appeal

 

[irlsgt]

What i can't come to terms with with regard to the uprising is the deliberate attempt, while we were at war & at that time not making much progress whilst absorbing horrendous casualties, to undermine the war effort. The lack of popular support highlights the futility of it all to me & the following 80+ years of misery on that island are rooted in a shared history going back to Elizabeth I. Its a crying shame that two nations who actually share so much were so distant & unable to resolve differences that in real terms weren't really that different.

To attack a nation already at war to me is traitorous & it was obvious that defeat & probable execution would be the result. The whole thing over the last 100 years seems an unforgivable fcuking waste of blood & treasure.

I hope you take this in the way it is intended (not trying to push it down your throat or anything).

Britain in modern times (hopefully for your sake) will never understand what it means to be oppressed by a colonial power. Ask yourself why the Irish and English are so alike the answer is in the first sentence - we were made to be alike, Irish culture had all but been destroyed. It goes back to well before Elizabeth I, we are talking the 1100s & 1200s here.

Pearse was very fond of the "blood sacrifice" and has we now know it actually did start something that would lead to independence. Was there another way? We'll never know remember Canada got independance in the 30s and some African nations had to wait till the 60s.

My personal view is that if all the Volunteers had come out and been armed, the situation could have very different with a nationwide rebellion. At least part of me believes that Pearse wanted to die and become a martyr to draw others to the Irish Republic. Arguably it worked.

With regard to the rebellion being let's say ungentleman like. War isn't fair, the days of forming square, red coats etc were long gone. There was a Fenian phrase, "England's difficult is Ireland's opportunity" and a banner was put over the front of Liberty Hall in 1916, "We serve neither King nor Kaiser, but Ireland". The underdog has to use the means at their advantage. Also wasn't the Great War supposed to be about the independance big small nations?

We will never know if Home Rule would have actually been granted after the war or even when the war would ended.

I don't necessarily agree that the all the tactics employed by either side should have been used.

To put it into context, there was around 3,500 people killed in the 30 years of the Troubles, there was an estimated 2,500 killed between 1917 and 1922 (which included the Civil War). The IRA did raise its head between 1922 and 1969 and was swiftly dealt with. The indifference to the civil rights in NI, helped fuel the fire that started the terror campaign IMHO (that is not to excuse any actions). That was history repeating itself.

 

[MostlyBollocks]

Prog just started on BBC2 about the Easter Rising, with Brendan O'Carroll (Mrs Brown) - apparently had family involved.

Should be on iPlayer later.

I missed the start but from a few minutes viewing, looks like it might be worth a watch.

 

[Mr_Fingerz]

Prog just started on BBC2 about the Easter Rising, with Brendan O'Carroll (Mrs Brown) - apparently had family involved.

Should be on iPlayer later.

I missed the start but from a few minutes viewing, looks like it might be worth a watch.

@MostlyBollocks Is that Who do you think you are?

 

[MostlyBollocks]

@MostlyBollocks Is that Who do you think you are?

Prog is called "Brendan O'Carroll: My Family at War"

ETA link: BBC iPlayer - Watch BBC Two live

Should be able to tell iPlayer to restart the current programme, and should be available after it's finished via usual iPlayer

 

[Mr_Fingerz]

Prog is called "Brendan O'Carroll: My Family at War"

ETA link: BBC iPlayer - Watch BBC Two live

Should be able to tell iPlayer to restart the current programme, and should be available after it's finished via usual iPlayer

Thanks. I'll catch it later. His episode of WDYTYA concerned the shooting of one of his relations (IIRC Grandfather) by the British. Fascinating.

 

[ches]

I hope you take this in the way it is intended (not trying to push it down your throat or anything).

@irlsgt thanks for the informative reply & i do understand where your coming from &, to an extent, the leaders of the uprising. In retrospect rather than my point about not coming to terms with the attack while we were at war, i suppose I'm actually more anti the leaders, Pearse, Connolly etc as if as you say Pearse expected to die in the attempt then they knew that a lot of innocent & young volunteer lives would be lost. But then, if the ultimate goal was to be independence at some later stage then maybe that is justifed & as we know leaders in war make some shit & shitty decisions so who are we 100 years later to question. My only gripe on the current commentaries around the event are not acknowledging the large number of civilians who were killed but to the victor the spoils & all that.

On another note, the British response was ridiculously disproportionate in my opinion. That prick in charge of our lot created nothing but a fermenting pot for an unstoppable independence movement amongst moderates & those who hadn't really cared before. Asquiths intervention was sadly too late.

We were wrong in Ireland. We were then & we were in 69 the following few years. We had a chance to implement & create a good hearts & minds campaign. We had a chance to stamp out the bigotry & discrimination of the catholic minority but instead those pricks in power in NI told us how to do our job & not the other way round. If i'd have been a young catholic in 69-74 I'm pretty sure my sympathy's would have rested entirely with my own community seeing what was happening to them. I would never have taken up arms against the British but I would have supported opposition to the govt until that opposition turned into the armed struggle it became. As a former BANNER mong that something for me to say having had more than a cpl shitty experiences across the water but what we allowed to happen was wrong & i think we could have prevented it, but then that 'what if' is for another topic i think.

 

[adouglasmhor]

Oy, nowt wrong with Musselburgh, The Honest Toun! Some fine upstanding members of ARRSE hail from there! (Well one at least,).

My RSM in basic training was from Musselburgh, got me and another Scot from holding troop stocious on Talisker as thanks for babysitting at short notice while he was at a mess do. We got hauled in at the gate back into camp then promptly F'd of at the high port and told to go to bed when the orderly sergeant worked out where we had been drinking.