Dublin University OTC and the 1916 Easter Uprising

[olafthered]

Apologies for going off at a bit of tangent to the main theme of this thread (which in itself is fascinating).

Militarily I have pretty much done things in reverse. As a young man I served as a regular in the Royal Engineers and eventually left to go into higher education as a mature student. Rather than get a bar job to pay my way I joined Cambridge UOTC as they had an RE wing, so I continued to get paid for building bridges and blowing things up and attending exercises in Ascension Island and Belgium and generally working attached to other RE field units and attached leadership with infantry units.

The CUOTC was initially raised in 1803 in reaction to the Napoleonic threat at that time but played no general part in that particular theatre. Fast forward to 1899-1900 and the second Boer war was in effect, a detachment of CUOTC volunteers sailed from Southampton on the 7th March 1900 and was attached to the Suffolk Regiment. In that capacity they joined in the siege of Pretoria and after this they were deployed in an anti-guerrilla capacity defending railroads from Boer commando attacks. They were then deployed again with the Suffolks in an attack on a Boer position at Barberton and played a sniping role in relation to the retreating Boers due to their shooting skills. After Barberton they were largely relegated to generic stagging on duties as hostilities generally wound down.

The volunteers were back in Cambridge on 6 May 1901. All the Volunteers were made Honorary Freemen of the Borough of Cambridge and on 21 December 1904, three years later, CURV was granted the battle honour "South Africa 1900-01". In 1908, CURV was renamed Cambridge University Officers' Training Corps and remains the only Officers' Training Corps to be awarded a battle honour ( in light of other comments I have to assume that this honour is UK based only).

There is a good generic history on the CUOTC: Amazon product

Correction. Manchester also hold a battle honour.

 

[panzermeyer]

Correction. Manchester also hold a battle honour.

The confusion may well be on my part as other than your previous observations on the Manchester scenario I would openly admit to knowing nothing about that. However, my observation on the unique position CUOTC may or may not hold comes from the author Hew Strachan who wrote the history of the CUOTC that I highlighted in a previous post. He noted that whilst other university contingents did go to South Africa, Cambridge was the only one so distinguished with a battle honour through Special Army Order 21st December 1904. He does go on to state that Cambridge is unique in that it is the only OTC to carry a battle honour. I wonder whether he means that it is the only still functioning OTC that is entitled to openly display this on associated Corps paraphernalia, rather than it being the only one to historically be awarded one?

 

[AfghanAndy]

A bit off track but this may be of interest to some people.

Insight: Study of Scots role in Easter Rising controversy - The Scotsman

Seems to ignore those Scots who weren't lovers of the IRB.

 

[Mr_Fingerz]

A bit off track but this may be of interest to some people.

Insight: Study of Scots role in Easter Rising controversy - The Scotsman

Seems to ignore those Scots who weren't lovers of the IRB.

The Rising wasn't just undertaken by the IRB, Connolly had a hand in the formation of the Irish Citizen Army (mainly found from members of the ITGWU (but also included Countess Constance Markiewicz and Francis Sheehy-Skeffington)) 220 of them, including 28 women, mustered at Liberty Hall and went on to take part in the occupations of the GPO and Stephens Green alongside members of the Irish Volunteers.

 

[HE117]

A bit off track but this may be of interest to some people.

Insight: Study of Scots role in Easter Rising controversy - The Scotsman

Seems to ignore those Scots who weren't lovers of the IRB.

Oh aye...

I keep grinding my teeth when I pass the plaque to Connolly in the Cowgate!

(....not Billy BTW!)

 

[Flaggie]

I was at Cov Poly/University from 89 to 92 and distinctly remember the OTC lot being part of Birmingham. There were a few OTC people on my floor in Priory Hall in 89-90 and what surprised me was how open they were about what they did, especially considering the amount of IRA and IPLO graffiti there was in the area.
What really surprised me was their attitude to uniform as they seemed to live in it. At the time I was told not to attend training meetings in uniform but to change once I got there. Although that may have had something to do with the rather embarrassing nature of the zip up RAF No.2 jacket that we were issued with as opposed to perceived terrorist threat.

Was at Lanchester Poly (as Coventry Uni used to be called) in 1988/89 and there was a fairly laid-back attitude to uniform. I sometimes went into the Students' Union in kit after a drill night if meeting someone before having time to change, as I was living a fair way out of town. The SU secretary at the time was a radical IRA supporter (posters on his office wall, etc.) and we traded more-or-less good-natured insults across the bar (my favourite being "Have yer killed any of me countrymen tonight?" "No Paddy, they all ran away!"

 

[RhodieBKK]

RTE have just started broadcasting Rebellion a 5 part mini-series, that from the first episode appears worth watching and available for download from various parts of t'internet.
rebellion - RTÉ TV Drama

 

[Gary Cooper]

By the way why does everyone keep calling it the Easter Uprising?

 

[redindxb]

RTE have just started broadcasting Rebellion a 5 part mini-series, that from the first episode appears worth watching and available for download from various parts of t'internet.
rebellion - RTÉ TV Drama
View attachment 230176

By the way why does everyone keep calling it the Easter Uprising?

I believe it started on Easter Monday

 

[Gary Cooper]

I believe it started on Easter Monday

It's the Uprising bit that has me mystified.

 

[Gary Cooper]

Speaking of little known facets of Irish Military History. Another educational/military institution was the Royal Hibernian Military School. It existed in Phoenix Park from 1769 to its amalgamation with the Duke of Yorks Royal Military School in 1924.
Royal Hibernian School

 

[metellus cimber]

At the time it was referred to as "The Sinn Fein Rebellion". The term "The Easter Rising" began to be used later. "Uprising" would not be incorrect; but it was never used until recently. I think it's unhistorical.

 

[gizmo17]

I take it when you reference the Royal Scots your thinking of James Connolly he was not a deserter i believe he had been discharged years previous

 

[hotel_california]

Slightly OT, interesting article in the Irish Times:
Pádraig Pearse’s overtly Catholic Rising was immoral and anti-democratic

 

[HIGHLANDER_SPY]

Speaking of little known facets of Irish Military History. Another educational/military institution was the Royal Hibernian Military School. It existed in Phoenix Park from 1769 to its amalgamation with the Duke of Yorks Royal Military School in 1924.
Royal Hibernian School

At the time one of three Military Boarding Schools in existence, I was at the other, Queen Victoria School, in Scotland, the youngest, opened by King Edward VII in 1908. During World War Two, the boys from the Duke of Yorks RMS were sent to QVS for the duration and had to adopt the uniform in my avatar, less the short plaid. All three Military Boarding Schools had their own Sovereigns and School Colours. I had the honour of being in the School Pipe Band in 1967 when her Majesty the Queen presented New Colours to my school. They have since received another set. Those from the Royal Hibernian School were, I believe, laid up in the chapel at Windsor Castle.

 

[Gary Cooper]

Slightly OT, interesting article in the Irish Times:
Pádraig Pearse’s overtly Catholic Rising was immoral and anti-democratic

The writer didn't pull many punches there.

 

[Aul_Wan]

At the time it was referred to as "The Sinn Fein Rebellion". The term "The Easter Rising" began to be used later. "Uprising" would not be incorrect; but it was never used until recently. I think it's unhistorical.

A correction, the British press of the day referred to it as the "Sinn Fein Rebellion", a moniker that was never used in Ireland as everyone knew the party wasn't within an ass's roar of the GPO.

In 1916 Sinn Fein was led by Arthur Griffith who advocated a Dual Monarchy system of government for Ireland a la Austria-Hungary.

It was normally the "Easter Rising".

 

[Gravelbelly]

Correction. Manchester also hold a battle honour.

Just to prove that UOTCs haven't really changed over the years, here's a passage from Tomasson & Buist's "Battles of the '45" - specifically, the chapter dealing with the 1745 Battle of Prestonpans (a few miles along the coast from Edinburgh):

Among the eighty or so volunteers who had joined the royal army were a number of students from the College of Edinburgh [Edinburgh University], who, like Carlyle and Home, had belonged to the volunteer company commanded by ex-Lord Provost George Drummond. On Cope's suggestion sixteen of them were detailed to reconnoitre the roads to the west of Haddington during the night, and having been divided into two shifts they were sent off in pairs, mounted on post-horses. All returned to report that everything was quiet, excepting one pair, who were taken prisoner by a Jacobite patrol while they were enjoying an early morning meal of oysters and white wine an an inn near Musselburgh. After having been threatened with hanging as spies, or, alternatively, with being placed in the forefront of the battle, they were released the following afternoon through the good offices of a Jacobite fellow-student.​

There you have it. The RAC Sub-unit strikes again...

 

[beardyProf]

Slightly OT, interesting article in the Irish Times:
Pádraig Pearse’s overtly Catholic Rising was immoral and anti-democratic

Definitely designed to provoke, but elements of truth in it. The main point to appreciate is that like all other history the Post Office issue has been rewritten by the victors, and in this case that's the victors of the Irish internal arguments after independence, to mean what they wanted it to.

 

[HIGHLANDER_SPY]

Just to prove that UOTCs haven't really changed over the years, here's a passage from Tomasson & Buist's "Battles of the '45" - specifically, the chapter dealing with the 1745 Battle of Prestonpans (a few miles along the coast from Edinburgh):

Among the eighty or so volunteers who had joined the royal army were a number of students from the College of Edinburgh [Edinburgh University], who, like Carlyle and Home, had belonged to the volunteer company commanded by ex-Lord Provost George Drummond. On Cope's suggestion sixteen of them were detailed to reconnoitre the roads to the west of Haddington during the night, and having been divided into two shifts they were sent off in pairs, mounted on post-horses. All returned to report that everything was quiet, excepting one pair, who were taken prisoner by a Jacobite patrol while they were enjoying an early morning meal of oysters and white wine an an inn near Musselburgh. After having been threatened with hanging as spies, or, alternatively, with being placed in the forefront of the battle, they were released the following afternoon through the good offices of a Jacobite fellow-student.​

There you have it. The RAC Sub-unit strikes again...

I realise this is a bit late Gravebelly, but during my time at our old Alma Mater, whenever we had a Pipe Band enngagement at Murrayfield, we also used to stop off at Musselburgh on our way back to Dunblane. Although I must confess, it was for a meal of fish and chips and not oysters and white wine!