Dubious Falklands story

#1
I found this on another forum, and am calling shenanigans on it. Lots of it just does not ring true (grammar, phrasing, turns of phrase). What do you lot think?

Pánzon;107892 said:
Hello everybody,

My Nick is Pánzon and I am an aficionado to military history and being myself Argentine by born, I do have a special interest on the actions fought on the Malvinas/Falkland conflict in 1982.

I just discovered this forum, and I just finished reading this thread and I think that I can add something on the Antelope event as I made friends with a survivor of this ship and we did start a nice friendship that took us in a trip to remember those terrible days...

Just by chance, I was able to made Keith ( the survivor) exchange greetings with the flight leader that attacket the Antelope ( Cap Pablo Marcos Carballo "Cruz"- now Commodore Carballo) and they are collaborating together for the upcoming book by Commodore Carballo "The Falcons shold not be cried on"... this book will honor the 55 fallen heroes of the Argentine Air Force during the conflict and also exchanged greetings and shows of respect with Luciano Guadagnini Jr. ( he was not yet born when his father made the utmost sacrifice)..... Luciano Jr does not hold hate against any British serviceman, he knows his father was doing his job, as everybody else tried to his best.... he was the pilot that crashed against the rear aerial of HMS Antelope that sad, but at the same time "lucky" day on the 21st of May 1982 not before dropping his mortal load over the Amazon Frigate....

In hindsight, I can say that I am happy the bombs did not went off inmediatelly.... My friendship with Keith would not have been possible otherwise..... Luciano Guadagnini Jr. thinks the same.... as do Commodore Carballo...

Okey now, having made the presentation, I will copy here the first letter I received from keith in response to my pledge for him to tell me his "story", it is terrible..... I can assure you..... I sincerily hope this letter is treated with respect, there are good feelings that you can read on like in a palimpsest.... and also horrible fear, of being killed in the innards of a "tin can" without nothing to do....... also, it is part of my personal correspondence and if all goes well and I receive authorization I will gladly post some more of the letters...

I hope you all will understand that I am bringing this story only as it relates to a terrible time, at a horrible and far away place. I am NOT an enemy of the British...... I am convinced the Malvinas/Falklands are and always been Argentine, but this is not the "direction of this post" I just want to share this story with you.

Also, I want to present a little bit better the character of 1st Lt Guadagnini.... and make VERY clear that he did not crashed against the FH5 Aerial because of a "kami Kaze" action..... he tried to drop his bombs on target even when he knew that was the last thing he was going to do..... knowing quite well that Luciano Jr was in his wife womb and not due to come to this world until 3 months later...... this I can say as "Bunny Warren", the gunner that hosed 1st Lt. Guadagnini plane with 20 mm just before he dropped his bombs was practically looking into his eyes at the moment of truth....

Okey, this was a long presentation, let us go to the letter.

""Hi Juan,

No problem telling you how things were from my point of view however, it
was
25 years ago and I was only 17 (not even old enough to legally drink
alcohol!) at the time.
There are no apologies needed from any Argentinian to me. I have to say
I don't think that the UK has any claim on the Falklands at all. 8000
miles
off shore is hardly British soil in my eyes.
I was on HMS Antelope in San Carlos Water (Bomb Alley) on the 23rd of
May
when we were attacked by four skyhawk aircraft. One was hit by small
arms
fire and crashed into the aft mast (Our FH5 aerial). That pilot was an
absolute hero because even knowing he was about to crash, he still
deployed
his 1000lb bomb and hit the target (Aft starboard).
We took a second 1000lb bomb on the port side further forward from
another
plane soon after. This pilot also has my utmost respect as do they all.
The events thereafter are well documented.
My main memory of those days was the absolute terror I felt when under
attack. When the plane hit us, the ship keeled hard to port and dust
was
shook down from the air vents creating a haze. At the same time the
bomb
crashed into the ship one compartment ahead of me and fractured a freon
gas
line which set off the chemical alarms. This was pretty much a worse
case
scenario because we genuinly believed that we had been hit by a chemical
weapon. I was so scared I couldn't even get my gas mask out of its bag.
By the time the next attack came the giros had packed up as had most of
the
lights. I was in the XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. We
had
no idea what was going on outside. Only the roar of guns and jets above
our
heads. Each time a plane attacked I remember thinking; "Please God, Let
the
bombs land further forward' please don't let me die down here." It's a
hard
thing to admit that you actually wished for others to die instead of
you,
but, just lying there in a semi dark smokey coffin with chaos screaming
overhead, it is how I felt. All seventeen years of me was terrified
beyond
description. I was a virgin and still had no use for shaving.
When I got back to the Uk I suffered terrible guilt. I started drinking
and
picking fights with the biggest guys in the bar, probably to try and
proove
to myself that I wasn't a coward. The funny thing was I would never
defend
myself once in a fight, I would just let the guy beat the crap out of
me.
I once provoked a gang of Hells Angels into smashing my face in one
night.
The Navy ended up sending me to a psychiatrist but I only really healed
years later.

Now life is great I live pretty much without fear which has enabled me
to
become modestly successful.
I have forgiven that kid for being scared back then. Hell, he didin't
even
have a gun to hold or any way to defend himself down there in the dark.
And
to his credit he stayed at his station till the order to abandon ship
came.
He never cried out or outwardly disgraced himself. He was just a kid
who
didn't want to die a horrible death before he had a chance to become a
man.

For me, Argentina was never a enemy because I think we were the bad guys
in
it all. I think it is us who should apologise. Many of us cried when
we
heard about the sinking of the General Belgrano while we were still
steaming
to the area.. . They were our brothers of the sea.

Please feel free to ask me anything. I will tell you the absolute truth
as
I understand or remember it.
As I say, I have made my peace with myself. I have attatched a photo of
myself as I am now. I will try and scan a picture of me from back then
and
enclose it another time. You will not believe how young I looked. I
could
have passed for twelve!

Adios Amigo

hasta luego

Keith"

Receive my best regards and I hope you welcome me on the forum and that we can respectfully talk about this "100 Days"......

Cheers to all,

Pánzon
Some of what he supposedly says appears to be straight out of an Argentine propaganda book, and phrases like " I was a virgin and still had no use for shaving" seem decidedly non-British, and the crying at the sinking of the Belgrano is also highly suspect...
 

oldbaldy

LE
Moderator
#3
Says he was 17 at the time as well. mmmm!
 
#4
Fiction and pretty sh1tty fiction at that.
 
#5
Dago cnut!
 
#6
Exactly what I thought, but I need some concrete explanations of why this is the 110% beaulokkos totales that this is, because it will be immediately defended by all the cnuttish dagos on the other site.

If anybody wants to weigh in personally for a little Queensbury rules, here is the direct link:

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=107892&postcount=143
 
#7
No doubt lots of people feel regrets for actions that they have made in the past but there is something about this that stinks. This is too much like that Vietnam nonsense posted by some so-called Vet. that we had a while back
It is all too trite in the manner in which it has been presented. It would be interesting if ,
Cap Pablo Marcos Carballo "Cruz"- now Commodore Carballo
,
Luciano Jr
and others named could be more positively identified. Some of those names I would imagine are in the public domain.
Until then, as sandy_boots says
110% bollox
 
#8
Antelope was hit on 23 May, not 21st.

The names of the pilots are correct, although the circumstances in which the one mentioned who was KIA are confused. It's not known for certain whether he struck the mast (although one aircraft did) and the consensus seems to be that he was hit by a SAM rather than 20mm - however, Antelope claimed to have brought him down with 20mm fire.

The letter conveniently supports the Argentine claim that Guadagnini got a DH on Antelope with a bomb, but there's no proof that this was the case.

The letter also seems to imply that the ship was abandoned shortly after the attack, when it was only abandoned after the UXB aboard went off.

However, given that even 25 years on the events of exactly what happened are confusing, the evidence doesn't mean that the piece can be dismissed as a complete load of spherical objects. The author of the letter may indeed believe that the Falklands campaign was a mistake - the issue comes if this is taken as representative of all those 'down south' in 82.

The bit about the Belgrano doesn't ring true at all, though - as far as I can ascertain (including from a few matelots who were down there at the time), the sinking of the Belgrano was regarded a bit more stoically. The response seems to have been an initial reaction of 'Fantastic, that'll teach them' followed almost instantaneously by the rather grim thought along the lines of : 'The water's bl**dy cold. [pause] Poor s*ds.' Again, it may be that a couple of scared young sailors blubbed about it, but once more, that's not representative.

I've no proof, of course, but I can't help thinking that this might be a genuine letter which has been a little...er... embellished for the benefit of a wider (Argentine) readership; the grammar and phrasing is just a bit odd.
 
#9
If it is real, it looks like something that was translated from English to Spanish, then back to English.
 
#10
Weird he uses the phrase "I was on HMS Antelope" when it should be "I served in HMS Antelope" - you are never on a ship - you'd drown if it was a submarine. It could be the passage of time that has dulled correct phraseology, but it still stands out to me.

I've seen a previous article supposedly about a Lt that was in Conqueror meeting the CO of General Belgrano written from an Argentinian perspective, and he to supposedly though the Islands were Argentine. Funny that,
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#12
A little bit of research might establish whether they'd have been carrying their respirators during action stations during this war - I don't recall ever reading about a supposed chemical threat from the Argies.
 
#13
The letter from 'Keith' is an almost word perfect copy of an article that appeared in the 'Oswestry and Border Counties Advertiser' about two months ago. The author of the article is called Keith Davies. There were also photographs of him published.

Whether the article is genuine I don't know for sure, but i knew Keith in 1988 and he told me a similar story. At the time I had no reason to doubt him. I can also vouch for the fact that he used to pick fights with monotonous regularity.

Mods, i don't think I've contradicted any persec issues here because that letter has been published in the press with full name and photograph. However, please feel free to delete if necessary.
 
#14
The letter from 'Keith' is an almost word perfect copy of an article that appeared in the 'Oswestry and Border Counties Advertiser' about two months ago. The author of the article is called Keith Davies. There were also photographs of him published.

Whether the article is genuine I don't know for sure, but i knew Keith in 1988 and he told me a similar story. At the time I had no reason to doubt him. I can also vouch for the fact that he used to pick fights with monotonous regularity.

Mods, i don't think I've contradicted any persec issues here because that letter has been published in the press with full name and photograph. However, please feel free to delete if necessary.
 
#15
Dogfondler has it right:

http://www.bordercountiesadvertizer...ype=Normal&PageId=1&SearchText=keith malvinas

though neither article makes the conrtrversial statements about UK being the baddies.

I know many ex-RN from the conflict, and although most are saddened by the loss of life caused by the sinking of the Belgrano, few wept and all realised that it was stragetically necessary. None support the notion that the UK has no claim to the islands.

IMO dago propaganda.
 
#16
DarkBlueLoggie said:
I've seen a previous article supposedly about a Lt that was in Conqueror meeting the CO of General Belgrano written from an Argentinian perspective, and he to supposedly though the Islands were Argentine. Funny that,
I believe the RN type wrote an article for the Guardian about that. I don't remember him expressing an opinion either way about sovereignty.
 
#17
They dozy doagoes have convinced themselves, and are trying now to convince us lot.
 
#19
I'm not sure of the veracity of the story, however the source who sent it to me is usually very reliable. Click here for a survivior's story from the ARA General Belgrano.

I'd be interested in comments from those a bit more knowledgeable as to whether there is some "gilding the lily" going on in the memoir. I've spoken to several naval vets of the conflict on both sides and they have said that the story is probably mostly true, but either way it's possibly a side of the story that not everyone sees.

James
 
#20
CutLunchCommando said:
DarkBlueLoggie said:
I've seen a previous article supposedly about a Lt that was in Conqueror meeting the CO of General Belgrano written from an Argentinian perspective, and he to supposedly though the Islands were Argentine. Funny that,
I believe the RN type wrote an article for the Guardian about that. I don't remember him expressing an opinion either way about sovereignty.
Quite right - mis-remembered. So I see from the link subsequently posted to!
 

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