DS1 - Are They A Happy Bunch Of Workers Or What??

#2
generally agree with you - especially with the thread on the mess! Guess it is easier to slag off than to act. I would however assume that you are refering to DS1 (DS2 I dont think has started yet!)
 
#3
It has bigger ramifications as far as I can see, these CV writers are tarnishing the image of IS operators, and having seen all of them pass through Blandford I can certainly say that the greater majority of them could not have successfully completed an Aptitude course let alone the Foundation course. (I am equally sure one or two could).

If there was any proof of my opinion needed then you should read the comments posted on various forums by Digimon, Wibblefishbanana and I suspect Hermoso Diablo, without doubt these jellyfish are the biggest oxygen thieves I have ever come across. They all have far too much to say they are saying it too loud, and I suspect that’s because they haven’t got a clue what they are on about.

A question to anyone out there working with these fcuknuts, do you feel like a carpenter? It’s just that I suspect that it’s about the same as working with wood.
 
#4
Liberty!! Bit bitchy - but very interesting if this is founded!!

I know that DS 1 were created to digitise the ARRC and the last exercise was a test of this. Being a man in the know (I presume you are at RSS & IS Op) did the IS Ops have to take over the ORACLE Database & GP3 system? (I heard that COMARRC was happy with the last ex)

If the IS Ops did have to stand into the breach what is happening now? I heard that most of the real IS Ops (ie, not ex ADP/DS1) are deployed from 16 so who will do the DB A role now?
 
#5
Bullshit,
Unfortunately I have absolutely no information with regard to the exercise you mention, as far as suggesting someone who could do the DS1 role now, not to worry as I hear RSS are soon to be training Class 3 IS Operators/Engineers and I believe they should be able to do the job with no problem.
I do also have to confess some of my comments are completely unfounded and based on rumour and hearsay, but profound none the less.
 
#6
cant beat a bit of "unfounded and based on rumour and hearsay, " keeps the job intersting!! :D
 
#7
I have to wonder whether or not these various so called members of the DS1 fraternity are in fact the same person in disguise. It is all too easy to create a new user and login to continue their own bitter agenda against the wider peace loving world! Quick quick grab the nearest tree and Hug It!!!!! :D

Maybe we should start a new thread to find out how many aliases each member has.
 
#8
Yassa,
I can’t believe that you’re suggesting that the few are spoiling it for the majority, surely this argument has no historical basis, or are you suggesting that it is one almighty fcuknut who is so opinionated that he requires more that one identity to express those opinions? Or more worrying that he has a multi personality disorder and we should all fear for our safety.

Which ever of the above is accurate I would like to point out that not all those that purport to be IS Operators are. And should show a small courtesy to those that have completed the qualifying course/criteria by not pretending to be what they are most certainly not.
I did think the following appropriate if a little obtuse:

To the legion of the lost ones, to the cohort of the damned, to my brethren in their sorrow overseas,
Sings a gentleman of England cleanly bred, machinely crammed, and a trooper of the Empress, if you please.
Yes, a trooper of the forces who has run his own six horses, and faith he went the pace and went it blind,

Thanks again Rudyard
 
#9
I think the real issue is a DS1 chap who stomps around and calling himself Supvr IS or IS Op after 3 months in Boringford & 9 months in the unit. The person that does this really does need a reality check and gives DS1 a bad name.

For those that joined to be App Ops or DBAs and stick to that trade - good for them. You cant really blame them for transferring to Signals because the Sigs were offering for most a pay increase (I dont think even Liberty with his high morals would turn that down :wink: )

I think the best thing for DS1 would have been to leave them in their own Corps but make sure they all got paid the same, grouping them all as IS Ops was just a bad example of short sighted staff work.
 
#10
I think the best thing for DS1 would have been to leave them in their own Corps but make sure they all got paid the same, grouping them all as IS Ops was just a bad example of short sighted staff work.
I think you summed it up there BS, however the whole of the IS roster over the last 3-4 years has smelt of shoddy staff work.

As far as i'm concerned, a DBA or App Op can call themselves whatever they like, they are all badged Royal Signals but employed in E2 posts - as far as i'm aware. I expect Records has to call them something for admin purposes. If it makes an individual feel better to call themselves an IS Operator, when their not, i will choose to take that as a compliment.

What does concern me is who is going to do this job once these guys have retired/got out? Shouldnt we be identifying the future DBA's from the IS Roster, and start training them or posting them into 16 Sigs to work alongside these guys and learn the job? I stand by to be corrected if this is already happening.
 
#11
boney_m said:
What does concern me is who is going to do this job once these guys have retired/got out? Shouldnt we be identifying the future DBA's from the IS Roster, and start training them or posting them into 16 Sigs to work alongside these guys and learn the job? I stand by to be corrected if this is already happening.
You would hope so - but somehow me thinks that they will suddenly go "oh sh*t, we've got no DBAs left when the last when leaves and an Ex/Deployment is pending", only then will they act (cynical? It happened before..)
 
#12
You would hope so - but somehow me thinks that they will suddenly go "oh sh*t
Thought so!! Someone should get on the case, it'll be bloody expensive and take quite a while - but its not often the Corps is accused of fore thought :wink:
 
#13
I reckon DBAs are going to become much more of a Corps-wide problem. Cormorant is providing a real headache at the moment - a handful of DBAs were trained a few years ago and most have now left the 2 Sigs/30 Sigs environment. Not only that but the gap between the Oracle course and actually getting hands on Cormorant was over a year!

Two words....SKILL FADE...although that is the case with every single trade group. What I will say about Cormorant, from an IS perspective, is that it is absoblinkin'lutely huge. 2 and 30 Sigs will have a massive requirement for IS Engrs - probably nearly 50 pers in all per Regt. Dunno where we'll get 'em from though! Looking at it logically, we're likely to get the same problem from next year with Falcon too.

Any of you lovely :wink: DS1/DS2 people fancy coming to help us out?

PD
 
#15
bullshit said:
without giving the nations secrets away - but does Cormorant have ORACLE on it?
Yep...but hardly anyone knows how to use it. :oops:
 
#16
LOL!

Best you go and look at some SELECT statements then PD! I know the ORACLE courses cost a fortune and if you are able to understand 10% of it you did well, that is why ORACLE is still one of the few IT Jobs in Civ St still able to offer good dough.

If funding for training became available it sounds like a good way to go (for the Army and the Corps of course - not for personal reasons.... :wink: )
 
#17
Looks like 2 and 30 Sigs will both be getting established for 1 x WO2 DBA and 3 x Sgt DBA each in the light of Cormorant trials. Awaiting ratification of course but useful if anyone's interested. Bl00dy g33ks. 8O
 
#18
It's great to see a well debated forum.

Hopefully I will be able to shed a little light on some of the questions posed.

I'm in 16 Sigs and work closely with the DS1 fraternity. Although, in this website they come across as being a bunch of whinging t0ssers, actually the majority all do a good job in 16 Sigs.

Here goes

I know that DS 1 were created to digitise the ARRC and the last exercise was a test of this. Being a man in the know (I presume you are at RSS & IS Op) did the IS Ops have to take over the ORACLE Database & GP3 system? (I heard that COMARRC was happy with the last ex)
The last exercise (Warrior and in particular Fusion) was in the words of the Brigadier 'the best he'd seen'. The IS Ops DID NOT take over the Oracle Dastabase & GP3 system. Why? Mainly because we didn't have to as the DS1 lads done an excellent job and secondly and more importantly, we weren't qualified.

If the IS Ops did have to stand into the breach what is happening now? I heard that most of the real IS Ops (ie, not ex ADP/DS1) are deployed from 16 so who will do the DB A role now?
Absolutey correct. There are 7 of us 'real IS Ops' left behind but still a substantial amount of DS1 also. The next major exercise (Guard) sees an APP Op deploying as the LAN Manager of ARRC Main (he wouldn't be if I wasn't going on a cse) as we don't have enough IS Ops to do the job whilst the remainder are in Iraq. I will add though, the guy is capable of running with it and he has the fall back of an excellent Supvr IS.

I think the real issue is a DS1 chap who stomps around and calling himself Supvr IS or IS Op after 3 months in Boringford & 9 months in the unit. The person that does this really does need a reality check and gives DS1 a bad name.
There are now a number of Supvr IS in 16 Sigs who initially came across as DBA's or APP Ops and subsequently completed the Supvr selection and cse. No matter who I upset I will say that some of those individuals are left a little 'wanting' when it comes to setting up networks and deploying with them. Now, the DS answer is that they don't need to set networks up, just manage the people who do - absolute b0ll0cks! The last 2 exercises I deployed on where with 2 outstanding Supvr IS who knew their stuff and I learnt a lot from. The last exercise the Supvr was in fact a DBA, but had about 10 years in IS environments - exception rather than rule! Surely everyone is in agreement that the Supvr IS is the man with the experience and knowledge to go with the job and not just good at briefing Staff Officers!

I've also had conversations with APP Ops who insist that they do the same cse as IS Ops. I'd like someone to clarify exactly what they do on their cse as I can't comment too much or guess for that matter.

What does concern me is who is going to do this job once these guys have retired/got out? Shouldnt we be identifying the future DBA's from the IS Roster, and start training them or posting them into 16 Sigs to work alongside these guys and learn the job? I stand by to be corrected if this is already happening
I can't comment on what MCM Div are doing about it. But credit to the new OC IS Troop as he's already identified the problem and indeed has 1 Sig Bde. The solution - train IS Ops in 16 Sigs as Database Operators (DBO's). The training should be underway around June/July. We'll see how it goes and the quality delivered (the DBA's are delivering the trg). But this will be a perfect opportunity for those IS Ops interested in DBA and with the skill set he/she already has, DS1 will no doubt fizzle out in a few years time.

I reckon DBAs are going to become much more of a Corps-wide problem. Cormorant is providing a real headache at the moment - a handful of DBAs were trained a few years ago and most have now left the 2 Sigs/30 Sigs environment. Not only that but the gap between the Oracle course and actually getting hands on Cormorant was over a year
Guess what - I was one of the ten trained for this little ill fated adventure. That would be 2 years this June for five numbskulling weeks. I've never in my life seen such a cluster fcuk. The trg (against the advice of Oracle) was five straight weeks with the assurance from LAND that we'd all be put in to Oracle posts (including the two of us from 16 Sigs) so SKILL FADE wouldn't occur. GP3 would have been the perfect opportunity to enhance/practice/perfect my Oracle skills with little or no skill fade. Unfortunately due to the politics in the IS Troop then (DS1 not needed according to one WO1) the opportunity was not granted.

The way I see things going in 16 Sigs IS Troop is very simple. The IS Ops that are posted here in the future will be required to be trained in Oracle and GP3 (just the same way we where for ATacCS) as part of an induction cse here in 16. Or possibly, the trg could take place in Blandford beforehand.

The DS1 lads that are here already and not in their last couple of years, I should imagine, will automatically become true IS Ops without further trg in Blandford (IS Foundation) when DS1 finishes at the end of 2005. The majority will either go off to 'civ div' or back to their old Corps. I cannot see the ARRC ditching GP3 and going back to map boards and the like, hence the reason, IS Ops will take over the mantle and DS1 will no longer be.

One thing I will point out is, contrary to popular belief, The IS Ops and DS1 lads in IS Troop, 16 Sigs DO get on, work very well together and RELY on each other when deployed on exercise. Hence the reason the last few exercises have been very successful.
 
#19
Jockdude,

That is an excellent and informative post for all of us - thanks for taking the time.

I think the DBA issue is one that the Signals are mostly sticking their head into the sand with and only doing something about when they have to. I think the issue is specialisation, ie, can somebody remain a DBA for his/her career. In civ st, it takes a long time to become a good DBA and once you are there you stay there. For the army to think that they can send somebody on a course and stamp DBA in the forehead is dreaming, DBA skills are gained through experience. So when the DBA comes to the end of his/her DBA tour is it not a waste to send them to a main stream IS Job? Surely, if the person is keen and proven, let him/her stay as a DBA. With the future of digitization I cannot see how we can take the attitude that DBAs can be created in 5 weeks. A DBA is a proper job and not just an extra skill like being able to program routers or write good logon scripts. If in doubt why do microsoft have a DBA qualification which is seperate to MCSE or MCSD?

I think anybody who is strange enough to write SELECT statements out of desire should be kept in that role - wierdo's....

:wink: :wink:
 
#20
jockdude said:
One thing I will point out is, contrary to popular belief, The IS Ops and DS1 lads in IS Troop, 16 Sigs DO get on, work very well together and RELY on each other when deployed on exercise. Hence the reason the last few exercises have been very successful.
Have to agree with you there WE DO all get on and work as a real team - the bad press we was getting was in my view not needed. ARRCADE GUARD will again prove we can all work together
:lol:
 
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