Drones & Appropriate responses

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
#1
I imagine this link has appeared already on the Ukraine thread(s), but it made me think...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32085542

As drones are becoming more and more "available", has thought been put into countering them? For example, the drone in the above video is home-made and seems to be countered by Russkie EW types.
As drones become more hi-tech and affordable, they have become a valuable recce asset for those that normally wouldnt have the capability, such as ISIS.
If say for example, a patrol in a Basra type environment spotted a drone shadowing them, should they shoot it down?
 
#2
The problem with EW is its all about the power battle. A drone wouldn't even have to carry any ESM and it would still take a massive amount of power to overcome each drones specific telemetry.

It's difficult to make comparisons without using our own ECM and clearly that is not going to happen.
 
T

Tinman74

Guest
#3
Would metor and typhoon not be a more realistic option.

Long range stand off, swing roll armed with Brinestone2.

There's even talk of a anti radar varient of the meteor:
 
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#5
Would metor and typhoon not be a more realistic option.

Long range stand off, swing roll armed with Brinestone2.

There's even talk of a anti radar Verison if the meteor:
Think you need to sort your keyboard out; looks like someone has switched some keys around!;)


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chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
#6
Would metor and typhoon not be a more realistic option.

Long range stand off, swing roll armed with Brinestone2.

There's even talk of a anti radar Verison if the meteor:
Typhoon etc would be useful against a capability similar to our own, such as Predator or Reaper - However, Irregular forces seem to be making use of the drones commercially available for £500 - quadcopters, i think they are called? Bad guys could watch us from one of these having a link to an ipad and manoeuvre or plant IED's as appropriate. Upon sighting one, is it appropriate to give it big licks from a GPMG on the AA pole that used to be taught?

 
T

Tinman74

Guest
#7
Typhoon etc would be useful against a capability similar to our own, such as Predator or Reaper - However, Irregular forces seem to be making use of the drones commercially available for £500 - quadcopters, i think they are called? Bad guys could watch us from one of these having a link to an ipad and manoeuvre or plant IED's as appropriate. Upon sighting one, is it appropriate to give it big licks from a GPMG on the AA pole that used to be taught?

Anyone that has tried to blat a drone out of the sky on the behest of the DS, whilst they stand back drinking tea.


It's not fuxking easy.
 
#8
Typhoon etc would be useful against a capability similar to our own, such as Predator or Reaper - However, Irregular forces seem to be making use of the drones commercially available for £500 - quadcopters, i think they are called? Bad guys could watch us from one of these having a link to an ipad and manoeuvre or plant IED's as appropriate. Upon sighting one, is it appropriate to give it big licks from a GPMG on the AA pole that used to be taught?

Or just wait the 20 or so minutes for the battery to run out.
 
#9
Typhoon etc would be useful against a capability similar to our own, such as Predator or Reaper - However, Irregular forces seem to be making use of the drones commercially available for £500 - quadcopters, i think they are called? Bad guys could watch us from one of these having a link to an ipad and manoeuvre or plant IED's as appropriate. Upon sighting one, is it appropriate to give it big licks from a GPMG on the AA pole that used to be taught?

If your concern is C-IED then current principles still protect us and the power battle moves to our favour.

However, I can think of a way to use a quadcopter in a way that would be difficult to counter.
 
#10
Or just wait the 20 or so minutes for the battery to run out.
Yep. The quadcopter drones while very useful for some stuff like aerial photography or video are still very low tech in comparison to what's generally used by the Americans, our army and other professional armies etc.

If you see one near you, cast an eye around for the operator because they are difficult to fly without having sight of them from where you are flying them from and while ECM was quite in it's infancy when I was serving, I would have thought the bandwidth used to fly a quadcopter etc could be easily jammed.

As you say, battery life isn't that long and the operator has to bring the thing back to them within the time that it's airborne. You couldn't just let it go down anywhere and go and collect it on a battlefield.

However, all of this isn't to say that a better solution isn't just around the corner. Quadcopters are getting more sophisticated and their endurance is improving. Like any technology, things get better as time moves along.
 
#11
If you see one near you, cast an eye around for the operator because they are difficult to fly without having sight of them from where you are flying them from and while ECM was quite in it's infancy when I was serving, I would have thought the bandwidth used to fly a quadcopter etc could be easily jammed.

As you say, battery life isn't that long and the operator has to bring the thing back to them within the time that it's airborne. You couldn't just let it go down anywhere and go and collect it on a battlefield.
The pilot could either program way-points, launch and have a cup of tea or he could use FPV (First Person View), watching what the drone can see on a monitor or by using FPV goggles. A top end commercial setup can manage about 5km at the moment.

These things can fly at about 30-40 mph so on a 10-15 minute flight that's 5-10 miles. My large Hexcopter would lift a payload of 3kg (Canon 5d mk3, lens and gimbal).

They fly on 2.4Ghz or 5.8Ghz for control, but it is not rocket science to just program the way-points in and it will fly wherever you want.
 
#12
What height will that hit fully loaded?
 
#14
Anyone that has tried to blat a drone out of the sky on the behest of the DS, whilst they stand back drinking tea.


It's not fuxking easy.
But by god it is bloody fun.
 
#15
Anyone that has tried to blat a drone out of the sky on the behest of the DS, whilst they stand back drinking tea.


It's not fuxking easy.
No, but I attended some demonstration in which assorted artillery and mortars blatted various scrap Land Rovers. They had GPMGs on the louch poles expending huge quantities of ammunition trying to knock a model aeroplane out of the sky, accompanied by much sniggering from the ranks.I think the guy with the remote control flew it into the ground to save any further embarrassment.

I doubt that small arms fire will prove effective against drones.
 
#16
I have been involved with some tests with low end commercial grade drones - fixed wing ones. They can loiter in a preprogrammed surveillance pattern at 500ft AGL for over 2 hours. ECM would be very difficult to make effective, and I doubt if small arms fire would be accurate enough to bring one down. We operated them beyond visual range as well, using a yagi on a tracking gimbal to maintain the video link.

This was in France with a professional operator having all the correct licensing (they assured me), if anyone is wondering.
 
#17
Equip pl cdr with under/over shotgun.

On sighting drone a quick direction is shouted, ie half left, followed by the command 'pull'.
I strongly suspect that a 12 bore could neutralize any of the commonly available quad-copters. The question does arise as to what sort of shotgun would be purchased for the troops of each regiment. Would the Guards be happy with an in stock gun from William Evans of St James Street? Would members of the Blues and Royals insist that the guns be bespoke pieces from Purdey of South Audley Street? Perhaps the MoD would purchase stock Berettas through BAE and pay three time the price of a bespoke Purdey or Evans. If Labour came in and cut the budget further would you have to get Remington 870's through BAE and if so would the magazine need a plug melded in to limit capacity?

These are subjects that might require further thought and discussion.
 
#18
Gpmg vs drone I'm betting on the drone after an afternoon of mostly wasting ammo the drone operator got into a snit because the engine took a hit apprantly your not meant to hit the engine .
 
#19
I witnessed an attempt to engage a small quadcopter thingy with skyrockets at approx 0030 on 1 Jan 2015. It was unsuccessful, in large part due to the inebriation of the SAM crew. If we can inculcate some discipline into the troops I believe we will have an anti-quadcopter envelope in place over our little piece of Baltimore in time for the next test window on 4 July. There does remain the procurement issue - since the great state of Maryland does not allow the sale of serious fireworks is means setting up a G4 chain across the border into Pennsylvania. Not insurmountable.

And rockets are a lot more fun than wiggly amps.
 

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