Discussion in 'Finance, Property, Law' started by edd1989, Dec 23, 2009.
The heart of the site is the forum area, including:
You are SUNRAY_MINOR's boss and I claim my Â£5: http://www.arrse.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=140690/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=20.html
That would explain why he was laughing so much this morning...
Unfortunately for you the Â£5 stays firmly in my pocket, as much as it would make some sense for the 2nd set of charges.
Anyway, serious question guys.
Firstly if the letters are Notice of Intended Prosecution,requesting you as the registered keeper to advise details of the driver at the time of the alleged offence,then I would suggest you reply to them,giving as much detail as possible.(if you feel the need, put a letter in with it stating that on the second night at that time you were in bed/home)
Police officers need corroboration to prove speed offences,usually this will be a calibrated speed device,however,two officers together can corroborate without a device,although this is unusual.
In your case they are not alleging speeding,so careless driving could be reported on the evidence of one officer,once again unless you did something spectacular or outrageous in the view of the officer(s) then I would doubt they would proceed.
I would return the forms and see what happens next.However,the details of the officer will be on the forms,why not ring him/her and ask what the allegation/evidence is.
You were speeding - you've got caught - pay up. Simples!
I've found the best way to not get prosecuted with shoplifting is not to steal - I suggest if you don't want to get pinged for Dangerous driving and/or Careless driving don't drive dangerously or carelessly and if you don't want to get done for speeding - don't speed!
What is the full text of the letter?
You have to reply to the request for the name and address of the driver, if you don't, then you commit an offence.
The purpose of sending the forms is to notify you that prosecution is being considered. That has to be done within 14days.
Answer them and see what happens.
The test for careless/dangerous driving is an objective one so they give the evidence and Magistrates decide if it amounts to careless/dangerous.
Excess Speed, alone, is neither, so you must have (allegedly) done something else.
Sounds like they let you off the first time, then saw you doing similar again the next night and decided you were taking the mick. (allegedly)
If you know it's a 30 and you knowingly drive at 50 you can hardly complain if you get caught, can you!
As for time of night etc, well that copper got jailed for running the girl over and killing her in the early hours.............
Wouldn't it have been more appropriate for the officer witnessing the alleged offence to have followed and stopped him, a moving traffic offence (allegedly) so mandatory roadside breath test?
That's what I would have done, in the days when I actually left the office that is!
The exact text of the letter:
Usually stuff at top, sender address, reference, telephone number.
Information as to the driver identity
The driver of the motor vehicle registration number A123 BCD which was being used at (road I was on) at (time) on (date) is alleged to have committed the following offence(s)
1. Dangerous Driving and/or
2. Careless Driving
1. S 2 Road traffic act 1988 and/or
2. S3 Road Traffic Act 1988
On behalf of the Chief Constable of (location), I hereby require you to furnish on this form the name and address of the driver on the above occasion, in accordance with:
Section 172 road Traffic Act 1988
Section 112 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984
Failure to supply the information requested within 28 days of receipt of this form is an offence for which you may, upon conviction, receive penalty points and/or disqualification, and a fine.
Space for signature and details as requested.
On the back there is a place for an explanation and reasons why you could not supple the details of the driver if you can't or you sold the vehicle.
I know I can hardly complain, I am not debating that. Just the two letters alone have "shitted me up" enough to not speed again. Because of the shift work I do I can't afford to lose my license.
I'm not saying I've done nothing wrong but I need advice to handle this the best way I can. What's done is done and I can't reverse it.
I didn't do anything spectacular, or at least I don't think so.
Put yourself out of your misery and go to a solicitor. At least you will know where you stand.
No such thing as a mandatory breath test?
Moving Traffic Offence just gives a power to administer one if they want to.
I think I would seek legal advice
You were not stopped by police at the scene
You were not breathalysed
Trouble is, it will probably cost more to fight the case than accept the penalty
1. Dangerous Driving - did you do anything that would actually be considered dangerous i.e driving towards oncoming traffic, jump a red etc?
2. Careless driving - Did you do anything reckless or careless that would/did interfere with another road user?
If the police are saying that the reason they are investigating these matters are due to your speed then you may have a decent defence as speed needs to coroborated by another person i.e another copper checking the speedo after the other has
A calibrated speed metering device such as a hand held speed meter or a gatso camera.
See legal advice asap, if a solicitor agrees with me they may take up your case
Right first of all,
Section 172 road Traffic Act 1988
Failure to respond to this is 6 points plus Band C fine (I'll explain fines later). If you use the ostrich method of problem solving, then expect 6 points plus Â£600 fine........ plus the original offenses on top.
Careless driving (drive without due care and attention) Road Traffic Act 1988, s.3, Triable only summarily:
Maximum: Level 5 fine or Band C fine. Must endorse and may disqualify. If no disqualification, impose 3 â 9 points
Momentary lapse of concentration or misjudgement at low speed: Band A fine to Band A fine and 3 â 4 points
Loss of control due to speed, mishandling or insufficient attention to road conditions, or carelessly turning right across on-coming traffic: Band B fine to Band B fine and 5 â 6 points
Overtaking manoeuvre at speed resulting in collision of vehicles, or driving bordering on the dangerous: Band C fine to Band C fine, Consider disqualification OR 7 â 9 points
Dangerous driving Road Traffic Act 1988, s.2 Triable either way:
Maximum when tried summarily: Level 5 fine and/or 6 months
Maximum when tried on indictment: 2 years
Single incident where little or no damage or risk of personal injury: Low level community order to high level community order and Disqualify 12 â 15 months
Incident(s) involving excessive speed or showing off, especially on busy roads or in built-up area; OR Single incident where little or no damage or risk of personal injury but offender was disqualified driver: High level community order to 26 weeks custody and Disqualify 15 â 24 months
Prolonged bad driving involving deliberate disregard for safety of others; OR Incident(s) involving excessive speed or showing off, especially on busy roads or in built-up area, by disqualified driver; OR Driving as described in box above while being pursued by police: Crown Court
Now that I've scared the life out of you, I suggest that as a first move you contact a solicitor for advice. You have 28 days, don't waste any time.
Secondly, don't take any advice from internet cowboys, you don't know who they are, and there is no recourse from bad advice.
Police evidence is given no greater weight than any other member of the public. However, their version for wishing you a Merry Christmas may be completely different from yours.
I wish you luck, and keep us informed.
Separate names with a comma.