Driving Hours. EU Directives.

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by YANTOFULPELT, Jan 31, 2007.

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  1. Musician Blanknumber works for the Royal Snail and drives a truck over 3.5 tonnes. His employer as just informed him that he cannot take "Paid Work" during his 45 hrs rest period.

    Bye Bye Pte Blanknumber :thumbdown:

    Sadly, this is just about to happen to one of my blokee's. As much as I am law abiding I find this very frustrating. :pissedoff: he's a Bandsman FFS, not two a penny and difficult to come by trained and ready to blow.

    His there a way out for Musician Blanknumber?????
  2. Any one help???
  3. jmj

    jmj Old-Salt

    I would presume that those 45 hour rest periods are paid by the employer, therefore the employer would be within their rights to insist that it is taken as rest and not devoted to a second job, no matter how restful? I may be barking up the wrong tree with this, but it's the best answer I could come up with after 5 minutes on google.

    As for a solution, if those 45 hours correspond to the only times he can practice / perform / whatever, then I would imagine he's stuffed.

  4. You are NOT allowed to undertake any paid work while on rest periods. However Reserve forces , retained firemen etc have an exemption. This is my companys view of things anyway. The Royal Mail should bloody well know that. But knowing that organisation its probally some lefty with issues sh1t stirring. Working on your rest period for mobile workers may also fall foul of the EEC working time directive (48hr wk) . However Reseve forces etc have an exemption for that aswell.

  5. JSP341 also refers to this and is the authority for use of TA soldiers emplyed as LGV drivers in their civilian employment. I can't remember the exact rules but, essentially, if they've used up their drivers hours in civi time then they must fill in the form (an appendix to an annex to Chap X) stating the hours they have completed and they cannot drive for the TA beyond those hours.

    Any time spent driving in TA training time, however, does not count against their drivers hours for civi employment the following day.

    Get your MT wallah to pull JSP341 and pick the relevant bit. I've looked on Armynet and it ain't there.
  6. He's only playing an instrument and not driving!
  7. JSP 800 is now the way ahead!
  8. This is an age old discussion. BS is quite right, MoD have dispensation wrt Drivers Hours Regulations. Whilst TA soldiers are employed by the TA in driving duties this time does not count towards their civvy employment. However more disturbing is that nobody has mentioned whether he is safe to drive whilst employed within the TA and that he is within his driving hours when he reports for duty, after alll he may have driven 10 hrs that day and the TA expect him to drive another 4 hrs up and down motorways in a fatigued state.

    I know that the TA self certify when they report for driving duties to say that they are fit and healthy and see no reason why they cannot drive but is this enough or should we be employing other methods.
  9. Quite right, since when has the Army/ TA been bothered about the number of hours spent behind a wheel.
    I remember some blurke visiting us on an exercise waffling on about improving "health and safety" in the field. Don't know what other depts told him but all the WOs to a man based on their experience had witnessed more accidents due to exhausted drivers.
    Ask, put a man behind a wheel when he has had no sleep for 24 hrs and expect him to drive non stop in a 20 tonne vehicle for 8 hrs plus. thsi is a recipe for disaster.
  10. Yes, MoD has exemption from drivers' hours regs but the Royal Mail are talking about EU directive for which the govt has not sought an exemption (according to piece in today's Sunday Telegraph).
    Having not sought an exemption, govt now faces having to negotiate a change to EU directives, which ain't easy.
    If Sun Tel is right, this will have a major effect on TA units, esp RLC tpt regts.
    What fun!
  11. LOL brilliant another great EU ruling when will we learn and get out !
  12. nothing wrong with the EU ruling - we had the chance to get an exemption but those slack-jawed knackers in Whitehall coudn't be bothered....
  13. I have it on very good authority that we have now applied for this exemption and that it should be passed through goverment before the new ruling is introduced.

    Glad somebody out there picked up on this!!
  14. yantofulpelt, i drive for a living and am a TA loggie, in a mag (truck or truck and driver) someone had written in to their legal page with the same dilemma as your bandsman.
    all they could do was quote from the VOSA website on drivers hours.
    when i checked VOSA's website and it said no exemptions, i printed it off and gave it to my MT staffie who flagged it up to the master driver, he went further with it and about 2 weeks later we got a memo saying to ignore it as there is or will be an exemption for MOD.
  15. There appears to be a bit of cinfusion here which is very understandable.

    OldSnowy has made this point on another thread about this subject but I will reiterate it here.

    The MOD already has an exemption from the Working time directive and operates its own drivers hours system which has various levels and safegaurds built in.

    The problem here does not lie directly with Private Blanknumber at the weekend when he is doing TA work. It rears it's ugly head on Monday morning when Mr Blanknumber reports to his civilian employer. Up until now he did not have to declare the fact that he had worked over his rest period from his civilian job, as the legislation currently stands he will now have to declare his military activity to his civilian employer who will have no choice but to include the time worked in the calculation of Mr BlankNumber's working hours for the week.

    There is no current exemption for civilian employers to ignore military time, it only applies the other way in that the military is exempt from the rules therefore does not have to include the previous 5 days working for your civilian employer when you report to teh TAC on a Fri night.

    clear as mud eh???