Drivers punished for Going Green - Daily Telegraph

Legs

ADC
Book Reviewer
#2
Please tell me you're not surprised.

All this 'Green' crap is just that. An excuse to tax us more, charge us more, make us buy something new etc. The Government is losing tax income by low (or no) tax on low emission vehicles, and on cars becoming more fuel efficient. Now they need to claw that cash back.


Next, let's tax the electricity used to re-charge these cars at the same rate as fossil fuel (a simple adaptation to the powerpoint may help there). Also, a recycling tax when they have to replace the batteries.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#3
For years we've been abused for polluting the planet and encouraged through the VED Sysyem to go green. Now we've played their game, they need to find the lost revenue.

Drivers punished for going green - Telegraph
They told us Diesel cars were better for the environment, we bought diesel cars, they put Diesel up to more than petrol, they told us gas cars were better for the environment, watch what happens with that, they told us electric and hybrids were better, watch what happens.
 
#4
Buy a pushbike is my advice. I use mine a lot these days and the bastards get much less tax out of me as a result.
 
#5
Quite right too, you all should be driving vast SUVs like proper Christian consumers and so propping up my petro-portfolio.
 
#6
Without wanting to sound too much like a government patsy, surely that's exactly how it's meant to work?

Government needs X in revenue, and needs to lower emissions by Y.

Lowering taxes, etc helps bring down emissions towards Y - and means that people do save money in the short term - but the govt still needs to raise X, so the tax breaks have to lower as more people take advantage of them.


I agree with legs on the tax bit though. If we're really all about cutting carbon emissions, then all fuel should be taxed at a flat rate based on the carbon dioxide emitted when burnt (plus extras for any other nasties), road fuel would of course carry an extra charge for road maintnence, etc.

It wouldn't work though, as it would mean that British manufacturing industry would become even more uncompetitevely priced than it already is - the only way I can think of to get around that one is to get all of the developed countries to levy import taxes on all manufactured goods based on the overall energy efficiency of the country in which they were made.
 
#8
It amazes me that I can drive around in my old Landy, bealching out more fumes than a flock of Ferraris, but pay no road tax.

May I remind all that it was a Labour idea to reduce taxes on "cleaner" cars and obolish on older vehicles...and not the deficit has to be addressed by someone else.

Cunning long term plan??
 
#9
1 Costs are high so the comsumer economises
2 This means the profit/income decreases
3 Costs must rise to keep income/growth the same

Go to 1

Capitalism in one easy lesson :)
 
#11
It amazes me that I can drive around in my old Landy, bealching out more fumes than a flock of Ferraris, but pay no road tax.

May I remind all that it was a Labour idea to reduce taxes on "cleaner" cars and obolish on older vehicles...and not the deficit has to be addressed by someone else.

Cunning long term plan??
Manufacturing a car takes many times more energy than it consumes in day to day use.

Your old Land Rover is greener than a Toyota Pious. The longer a vehicle lasts the more environmentally friendly it is.
This does kinda expose the problem with hybrid cars, they have a lifespan severly limited by battery life, they aren't actually very environmentally friendly at all.....
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#12
It amazes me that I can drive around in my old Landy, bealching out more fumes than a flock of Ferraris, but pay no road tax.

May I remind all that it was a Labour idea to reduce taxes on "cleaner" cars and obolish on older vehicles...and not the deficit has to be addressed by someone else.

Cunning long term plan??
And I pay £165 for my Bedford with a 5.4litre smoke generator.
 
#13
Manufacturing a car takes many times more energy than it consumes in day to day use.

Your old Land Rover is greener than a Toyota Pious. The longer a vehicle lasts the more environmentally friendly it is.
This does kinda expose the problem with hybrid cars, they have a lifespan severly limited by battery life, they aren't actually very environmentally friendly at all.....
Am I misremembering, or was it pointed out (on Top Gear, admittedly) that due to the transport miles required to move all of the materials for the batteries to the factory, the total carbon footprint of a Prius was larger than a BMW M3?

I think the claim was you'd have to run the Prius for 10-15 years before the lifetime carbon emissions were lower than the M3 over the same period.
 
#14
I am reminded again of the words of a biker friend of mine who lives on one of those communal eco-communities.

"Nothing you pay money for is 'green'".
 

TheIronDuke

ADC
Book Reviewer
#17
They told us Diesel cars were better for the environment, we bought diesel cars, they put Diesel up to more than petrol, they told us gas cars were better for the environment, watch what happens with that, they told us electric and hybrids were better, watch what happens.
Diesel was a waste product that had to be disposed of till Rudolf invented his engine. Plus the price impacts upon everything since trucks burn it. Grrr.
 

TheIronDuke

ADC
Book Reviewer
#18
Am I misremembering, or was it pointed out (on Top Gear, admittedly) that due to the transport miles required to move all of the materials for the batteries to the factory, the total carbon footprint of a Prius was larger than a BMW M3?

I think the claim was you'd have to run the Prius for 10-15 years before the lifetime carbon emissions were lower than the M3 over the same period.
The Prius and its Greenwash brethren score only on exhaust emissions. According to the Dust to Dust survey, which takes account of the energy used to mine the metal, make the plastic, rubber, glass etc, build the car, fuel and service the car for its lifetime then recycle it back to its elements, the Prius is less eco friendly than the Hummer. Mainly due to the energy used to mine and refine the rare metals in its batteries.

A synopsis and list here 'Dust to Dust' Automotive Energy Report | Hybrid Cars

The original research is here Automotive Energy

Dust to Dust is much hated by eco-warriors but much loved by Clarkson.
 
#19
Am I misremembering, or was it pointed out (on Top Gear, admittedly) that due to the transport miles required to move all of the materials for the batteries to the factory, the total carbon footprint of a Prius was larger than a BMW M3?

I think the claim was you'd have to run the Prius for 10-15 years before the lifetime carbon emissions were lower than the M3 over the same period.
Thats pretty much it, except the expected battery lifespan for a Pious is around 8 to 10 years. At the point it needs a battery repalcement the cost of the battery is far greater than the value of the vehicle.
Hybrid cars only realistically have a lifespan of a decade.

The you need to factor is disposing of the duff battery. As yet, I don't think the batteries can be recycled.
Toyota is a little reluctant to provide CO2 data for production and disposal of the Prius
 

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