Dresden (again).

#1
Why oh why do the lefty soft shandy-drinking bed-wetting bleeding-heart-liberals at the BBC revel in dredging this sort of rot up?

OK - Granted: The bombing of Dresden was not pleasant, Total War tends to get a bit nasty from time to time. On the way into work this morning I had to listen to this drivelling old man (who, co-incidentially is selling a book and I didn't think that the BBC was supposed to advertise) blathering on about Dresden and his part in it.

BBC News - Dresden survivor's story 68 years on from WWII bombing raids

Ofcourse his experiences will haunt him, it all sounds absolutely bloody dreadful, but I'm really not sure why some thick Para's opinion should be listened to nearly 70 years after the event: listen to his story, yes, but not his 'wisdom'. No mention was made of the German raids on London, Coventry, Southampton, Bristol, Swansea, and so on and so on, and yes, that is GERMAN raids not Nazi ones as the pro-Euro BBC usually like to try and deflect the blame. No mention was made of the German's Final Solution policy or the German behaviour in Soviet Russia or any other of the Axis Powers' acts of atrocity. There was a war on, you know?

BBC sensationalism. It makes me so cross.
 
#2
It was a touch one sided I thought....

Trying to claim the German people were blameless is a bit tricky as they were quite happy to vote Hitler into power and pretty much helped remove all the undesirables from their areas....
 
#3
To be honest the Dresden bombing was a drop in the Ocean compared to Hiroshima. A lot would have changed if we had managed to build these beautiful weapons even 6 months earlier. Dresden just proved that we had the will to use them.
 
#4
Interesting to hear his story though. At least that's another tale on the record and not lost. Also his reason for going on record is that no one seems to have learnt from it. You have to have some empathy for the bloke, his is quite a story.

I did hear a longer version of this on Radio 4 today where I think he points the finger at the politicians involved in WWII as being the cause. Again, he is entitled to his view in the free world they fought for. I personally can see his point and heed his warning.
 
#5
I think the revisionists/apologists now say we were at war with the Nazis, not the German people, therefore the German people were blameless. Yeah yeah I know.....
 
#6
#7
Interesting to hear his story though. At least that's another tale on the record and not lost. Also his reason for going on record is that no one seems to have learnt from it. You have to have some empathy for the bloke, his is quite a story.

I did hear a longer version of this on Radio 4 today where I think he points the finger at the politicians involved in WWII as being the cause. Again, he is entitled to his view in the free world they fought for. I personally can see his point and heed his warning.
Unlike Iraq there is a considerable feeling that WWII was a Just War.

BTW Did I hear the old boy claim we started WWII ?
 
#9
Unlike Iraq there is a considerable feeling that WWII was a Just War.

BTW Did I hear the old boy claim we started WWII ?
If he did, then if you read history then you have to agree to a certain point. The former WWI allies bent over backwards to appease hilter and they had the power to stop it before it started....The Versailles Treaty was the start of WWII.
 
#10
Interesting to hear his story though. At least that's another tale on the record and not lost. Also his reason for going on record is that no one seems to have learnt from it. You have to have some empathy for the bloke, his is quite a story.

I did hear a longer version of this on Radio 4 today where I think he points the finger at the politicians involved in WWII as being the cause. Again, he is entitled to his view in the free world they fought for. I personally can see his point and heed his warning.
The old chap's story is certainly worth hearing, as I said above. My gripe is with the BBC's portrayal of it all: completely one-sided and then they managed to get a dig in about the politicians yadda yadda yadda.... The interviewer's line in questioning was extremely feckin' questionable.
 
#12
Totally understand Queensman. Worries me the message will get lost.
I do however, as you probably agree, think that new generations are entitled to interpret WWII in different ways within reason. If conflict is to be avoided war has to be seen as 'bad' not 'glorious.' With modern weapons future global war could cause armageddon, let us not forget, very little real fighting at all and no heroics. But whatever the intepretation NOT lose the fact that the Germans needed and got a bloody good kicking and that was the only way to end it.
 
#13
Why oh why do the lefty soft shandy-drinking bed-wetting bleeding-heart-liberals at the BBC revel in dredging this sort of rot up?

OK - Granted: The bombing of Dresden was not pleasant, Total War tends to get a bit nasty from time to time. On the way into work this morning I had to listen to this drivelling old man (who, co-incidentially is selling a book and I didn't think that the BBC was supposed to advertise) blathering on about Dresden and his part in it.

BBC News - Dresden survivor's story 68 years on from WWII bombing raids

Ofcourse his experiences will haunt him, it all sounds absolutely bloody dreadful, but I'm really not sure why some thick Para's opinion should be listened to nearly 70 years after the event: listen to his story, yes, but not his 'wisdom'. No mention was made of the German raids on London, Coventry, Southampton, Bristol, Swansea, and so on and so on, and yes, that is GERMAN raids not Nazi ones as the pro-Euro BBC usually like to try and deflect the blame. No mention was made of the German's Final Solution policy or the German behaviour in Soviet Russia or any other of the Axis Powers' acts of atrocity. There was a war on, you know?

BBC sensationalism. It makes me so cross.
This is not "Points of View"

I find it amazing that a man who was taken to Dresden so that he could be executed for being a soldier fighting for his country in his country's uniform should complain about the raid that saved his life!

What he saw clearly affected him and has stayed with him. It tells a story on different levels and possibly helps to remind us that war affects all sorts, not just the active participants but those who are more innocent such as the children and people who didn't necessarily vote in Hitler so he could invade other countries and annihilate those he deemed untermensch. Much as many voters in 97 didn't vote in Blair to invade Iraq or Afghanistan.

There clearly were two sides to the problem and it's patently clear to most people that Germany's sins massively outweighed those of the Allies with the exception of Stalin who was as bad as Hitler. Was it the fault of any German who died in the Holocaust (as a victim), they didn't vote for Hitler but they didn't prevent him getting to power either. I think it's too easy to say all civilians were guilty because the reality is that the majority of Germany did not vote Hitler into power.
 
#14
Dresden, again and again we hear about it and how we should be ashamed of what we did there. These people forget that we had the same done to us, so what choice did we have, just sit there and do nothing?
I think that the Germans deserved what happened in Dresden and more and if people want to call me a right wing fascist for that view then they should look at the reasons why Dresden was bombed and why there was WW2.
 
#16
This is not "Points of View"

I find it amazing that a man who was taken to Dresden so that he could be executed for being a soldier fighting for his country in his country's uniform should complain about the raid that saved his life!

What he saw clearly affected him and has stayed with him. It tells a story on different levels and possibly helps to remind us that war affects all sorts, not just the active participants but those who are more innocent such as the children and people who didn't necessarily vote in Hitler so he could invade other countries and annihilate those he deemed untermensch. Much as many voters in 97 didn't vote in Blair to invade Iraq or Afghanistan.

There clearly were two sides to the problem and it's patently clear to most people that Germany's sins massively outweighed those of the Allies with the exception of Stalin who was as bad as Hitler. Was it the fault of any German who died in the Holocaust (as a victim), they didn't vote for Hitler but they didn't prevent him getting to power either. I think it's too easy to say all civilians were guilty because the reality is that the majority of Germany did not vote Hitler into power.
Considering hitler and his thugs had a habit of murdering those that they though would get in their way - no matter what rank or position, can you really think that anything else would have happened!
 
#17
The Versailles Treaty was the start of WWII.
That is one oft repeated claim. Another theory is that Germany did not experience a proper defeat. After the failure of the final desperate 'Kaiserschlacht" offensive in 1918, Germany had lost the war of attrition. It had run out of manpower, materiel, allies and the people at home were starving due to the blockade of its sea routes by the Royal Navy.

Although it had been defeated militarily, a continued offensive into Germany was not pursued by the allies. Germany was not required to accept an unconditional surrender but was allowed to be a signatory to an armistice. At the end of hostilities, Germany still occupied much of the same territory of Belgium and France that it had occupied at the start of hostilities. Their troops were permitted to return to Germany in good order. There were some amongst the US allies (who had entered the war only recently and were not as bankrupted and war-weary as their European allies) who considered that such an armistice was ill-considered and anything other than total defeat of Germany would result in the very real prospect of problems in the future.

How right that proved to be. A more recent parallel can be found in Gulf War 1 & 2.
 
#18
Considering hitler and his thugs had a habit of murdering those that they though would get in their way - no matter what rank or position, can you really think that anything else would have happened!
No, not at all. I was answering those that said all Germans were guilty which is untrue. Sorry, probably didn't put it very clearly.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
#19
A thotoughly justified and successful military operation. Congratulations to all the airmen and their supports who carried it out.

Balls to the Germans. Hope it hurt.
 
#20
Trouble with Dresden?

Germans lost the game of hard bastards as we had much more hardcore bastards than them.
I suspect more impact was made by Uncle Sam's gargantuan industrial base. That and Adolf fighting on two fronts.
 
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