Discussion in 'Sappers' started by FAILED_BOOTNECK, Mar 19, 2006.

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  1. Thinking of joining the RE as a design draughtsman? A good trade choice?
  2. i believe so fella but not a guru on that front. turned down that avenue myself to go to be a sparky.

    believe that the civvie quals are quite handy but am sure that more informed people than me will pass on their knowledge on that front.

    good luck.
  3. chimera

    chimera LE Moderator

    Good choice. It will probably steer you into the Clerk of Works stream after a few years.
  4. Depends alot on what sort of person you are. If you're not comfortable being "high profile", and are happiest working mostly in an office environment either alone or in a small team designing and using CAD then either of the two Draughtsman trades are for you.

    If you prefer to be mostly outside, working with either a Field or Plant Troop, and would relish the pressure of often being the only qualified person in your trade in your Squadron (sometimes Regt) then look at Construction Materials Technician or Surveyor Engineering. Both have roughly a 60/40 practical/office based split.

    Of these four "design trades" Surveyor Engineering offers the highest level of civilian qualification, an HND in Engineering Surveying, but only after completion of the Class 1 course. Does require a much higher level of maths than the other three though. Maths on the course is around AS or A level standard.

    As Chimera has already stated all these four trades can lead onto training as a Clerk of Works, which gives accelerated promotion from LCpl or Cpl to SSgt. If you're an older recruit to the Corps it's worth thinking about, although you'll have to be fairly thick skinned. Scan through some of the other posts in this forum and you will get an idea of what many in the RE think of Clerk of Works.

    Finally a warning that currently the RE seem to be restricting the choices of which career paths are available for the design trades. Essentially unless you go Clerk of Works, your future career after Corporal will either be in a trade post (of which many are soon to be chopped) or over on the stores side of things. That may not float your boat exactly. Search for some of cdn_spr's posts on this forum and you'll get a feel for this issue.
  5. Im an ex DD and the army needs to change the Title - the term Draughtsman is the lowest of the low in the building profession - That word is a killer when looking for a job in civi street- although the qualifcation sylabus is super. please please get rid of the draughtsman from the title
  6. I’m not sure what else you would call it, Draughtsman does what it says on the tin? Anything else would be akin to describing a cleaner as a “floor technician”?

    Something like CAD Operator suggests a person who only reproduces drawings in electronic format, at least with “Draughtsman” you are encompassing the whole idea of prelim designs prior to drawing?
  7. Not one myself, but i know the route for draughties is changing. Basically theres only going to be a single trade at A2 level (Des Dtmn & E&M DTmn are combining). When selected for A1 training, thats when you select (have selected for you depending on shortage) which side of the wire you want to be.
  8. In a lot of respects, I agree with im4y2uk. The Army trade extends far beyond what would be expected in civvy street with the same title. In that respect, you'd expect plenty of job offers once you sign off, but sadly this isn't the case as prospective employers look at the title before looking at the experience.

    You'd think that you'd get round this by going down the Clk Wks route, but there again, the civvy trade is totally different to the military one.

    As far as a career in the Army goes, I'd say that it's a fair one as it gives you knowledge of a wide range of disciplines without getting your hands dirty, and this knowledge can help you to progress. It is, however, fairly thankless as, during a design task, you'll be the last to start work (having to wait for information to come in), but will be accused of holding the job up while others are waiting for drawings towards the end. Hence, to those with little appreciation of what the job involves, you'll be viewed as a lazy cnut but in actual fact you'll be working your bollokcs off.

    DDs have my sympathy and respect.
  9. So what Civvy jobs would you be applying for as a qualified Draughtsman, that a prospective employer would over look that title on your CV?
  10. It's not a case that the civvy employer would overlook the title, rather that he would put too much emphasis on it. When a civvy looks for a Draughtsman, he's basically looking for a CAD operator and that's the salary level that he's willing to pay. The Army DD is capable of a lot more and if he jumps into the first Draughtsman job that he finds, he's going to find that a lot of his skill isn't used. If he gets with the right firm, his abilities may be recognised and he could look forward to promotion to a more appropriate position (though this probably won't have a clear Job Title). If he gets with the wrong firm, he won't get the opportunity for his abilities to be recognised and will end up wasting his talent.

    It's very much a case that the Army job spans over several civvy jobs, but not quite enough in any one to justify the application of an additional title. Even if it did, that job wouldn't recognise the other aspects of the training and experience that the ex-soldier has received. This happens in many areas, probably more so in the Construction side of the RE, accounting for the disillusionment of many a Clk Wks (C) as he takes up what would, at first, appear to be a civilian equivalent.
  11. Playing devil's advocate here but what is an ME DD capable of or does in addition, which is not expected from a Civvy Draughtsman? (Green training aside)

    Doing what?
  12. Depends on whic particular discipline, and at what level. In general an A1 Des Dtmn is capable of carrying out various parts of the design work (like reinforcing calculations etc) which is commonly carried out by them.

    On the other hand E&M Dtmn are capable of carrying out basic cable sizinng as well as calculations for example of Hot water heating systems etc. However due to time constraints they don't normally doo this.

    In general Militray Dtmn are trained to a higher standard than civilian ones, and are frequently given more responsibility and authority than their civilian counterparts. I know of numerous draughties who got out to be CAD operators and found themselves rapidly promoted in their relvant companies to be either trouble shooters for differant offices round the country, or promoted to manage said offices.
  13. The ME DD tends to develop the information that he receives to produce a drawing that should need little editing before becoming the final issue. Hence Design Draughtsman. The civvy tends to draw what he receives, relying on all the detailing to be done by somebody else. There are variations in the scope of work, hence the warning about making sure you get with the right firm.

    While there are large companies that segregate their employees into distinct categories, each performing a limited role that is easily defined by a Job Description and Title, smaller companies (particularly) maximise the abilities of their employees. As each employee in a general discipline may have widely variable experience, individuals will be given responsibilities beyond their generic Job Description. As such, their Title may not precisely reflect their duties. In the latter case, when advertising a job opportunity, they may ask for a Draughtsman, then compare applicants to identify additional skills that may be useful, not knowing in advance exactly what extra traits they want. In the former case, they probably just want someone who can draw lines.

    Simplifications, I know, but the organisation of civvy companies varies extremely from one to another.

  14. Semantics possibly but what you have described is the difference between Draughtsman and CAD Operator. There is a reconised difference in civvy companies cetainly within M&E Practices between a CAD Operator and a Draughtsman. The draughting of a design be it structural or internals is completed by the relvent engineer "Draughtsman" including calcs & design analysis. CAD Operators are generally on demand to produce finalised drawings and carryout any subsequent revisions.

    Quite possibly, so adding Draughtsman to your CV would atleast get your CV looked at?

    I disagree particularly if you compare educational qualifications. The majority are HND or above qualified particularly in consultancy practices where most are BSC (hons) minimum. Anything below and they generally hold the title of technician as apposed to engineer.

    Again semantics maybe but going back to my original post Draughtsman does what is says on the tin both sides of the water.
  15. In terms of the defined terminology, you're correct. But CAD operation is still considered by many to be a black art and the terms Draughtsman and CAD Operator are often incorrectly transposed. Although CAD is widely used nowadays, it remains a relatively recent concept with the result that many of the older people who use CAD started their career as something else and use either term indiscriminately. I would maintain, however, that the ME DD has a better better background of design than his civvy counterpart - though the civvy may have qualified as an engineer before learning CAD, in which case the tables turn again.