DR TDOL Viewer. How big a pile of poop is it?

Discussion in 'Weapons, Equipment & Rations' started by mongaloid, Mar 13, 2012.

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  1. I principally work to Air Publications the bulk of my work being aircraft related but recently discovered that a substantial number of APs have been scanned and transferred on to TDOL. I only found this out when attempting to access the 27mm Mauser AP on the Tornado Digital AP to find it was no longer there. We'd had no notification of this happening nor was I able to find any reference to it happening anywhere.

    Even though the majority of the publications I require are simply scans of the most recent hard copy the T&Cs at the TDOL front end still carry the caveat of "Hardcopy reproduction is valid only on the date of print and should not be used or retained beyond this date." A sensibly implemented system that enables hard copy printing and the ability to incorporate amendments easily doesn’t seem to be beyond the realms of practicality (Battlebox manages to do it) but we seem to always get lumbered with a half arsed cheap cop out system that's full of holes, e.g. pubs put up online with glaring errors in them like incorrect amendment states listed at the front on the book and why so many different online servers anyway? (TDOL, Battlebox, Defence Intranet, various aircraft IETMs & DAPs) Also I loved the effort that went into skewing the scanned pages of the LMG AESPs so the figs of the guns were level, not taking the deployed bipods into account .

    Anyway what is the general consensus of opinion regarding TDOL and other online technical documentation systems? Does anyone else who has to use them on a day to day basis find them practical when put up against traditional hard copy APs, AESPs and ACs?
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  2. Well millie takes an iceage to send out updates, and wont just send out the ammendment, they have to insist to send out a complete waste of paper the entire publication
  3. I'm sure we got picked up recently be the REME for quoting TDOL instead of holding pubs as it could be a long way out of date. I have no doubt that the whole show is underfunded, under resourced, undermanned and possibly has the wrong person driving it (judging by it's inability to operate in the 21st century). I do however appreciate it would be an absolute lick to convert everything to an electronic document.
  4. I have to admit i use TDOL quite a bit and it seems ok to me. But then i suppose its what you are looking for. The only drama i have with it is if you are in say Afghanistan and you need something off TDOL the internet connection can be too slow to download/look at an AESP that is of a large file size.
  5. I have to admit to being a bit of a luddite as far as tech pubs go and don't find working from a PC (especially as I'm not provided with a laptop) at all practical. Sadly every digital system I've encountered has that "valid only on the day of printing" caveat slapped on it. It's the fact that so much of what is on TDOL are not even proper electronic versions of the pubs is question, they're simply (bad) scans of the original. Even the those APs that have been renumbered and put on the server (27mm, M3M, M134D, M60D) under the DE&S banner are formatted the same as paper versions with Amdt & AIL tables included despite the fact that you're not supposed to keep copies. It's interesting what MiracleBill said about being picked up for quoting TDOL and not holding hard copies as I've been told by our main tech library that if it's on TDOL that is supposed to be the most up to date version and they are washing their hands of responsibility. If there are issues with AESPs being kept up to date I dread to think how the Air Publications are going to cope over time as it's down to the PT responsible for the item of kit to update what's online and I can see that going belly up very rapidly.
  6. I find to find TDOL useful for my needs. Since the demise of Llangennech it is increasingly hard to keep hard copy AESP up to the required Amdt state and the ECI team can have a field day finding uncontrolled hard copies of stuff around the Regt.

    I also find searching a PDF document far easier using key words than trawling through a book, however, I have got instant access to a DII terminal.

    Where possible our Tech Docs are now held electronically referenced by an index. This passed muster with the last ECI team, but we all know that even though there is a standard question set inspections are personality driven. But we have been directed to do it this way by Div ES.

    Also when we print documents they are marked as uncontrolled copies, however with a cover sheet stating that they have been checked monthly, this negates them being destroyed when there has been no amendment. Again this seems to satisfy our current inspectors.

    Personaly I prefer on line pubs but it is very much an individual choice.
  7. During the war, in HQ JFSP there was was a definite assumption that the fwd LADs had access to TDOL. Generally, if a sight had a DII terminal it wasn't going to be in the hands of the REME, there wouldn't be any paper to print to, there wouldn't be a printer or the REME punters wouldn't have a clue how to use tdol. I spent my time copying CDs for my lads to pass on.
  8. I believe that you have a 28 day grace on printed pubs rather than just one. You can then recertify if you have checked that the hardcopy hasn't been superceded by an ammendment.

    An easy way to see if there has been an ammendment is to save the page(s) you require as a favourite and if they don't load then they will have been ammended. So in essence all you have to do after the 28 days is reopen the favourite rather than checking it word for word.

    Miraclebill - are you saying that you were picked up by REME (assuming you mean on an ECI) for not using TDOL? Not sure what happened there but thats definately not the case.
  9. So a bit like what I said then ^~
  10. Oh the war, I didn't realise we where talking about THE WAR :)
  11. Easist way of doing this would be to have PDF/read only word docs.

    Top one is the overaching document, with amendment and date.

    Underneath is all the amendments.

    Bin all the pubs nd docs malarky and raise the stationary budgets of unit sto reflect the need to print of and store pams.

    Front end could be a list of all held pams (either printed off locally or shpped in), clicking on the pub would reveal the current date/amendment.

    done and done.

    Reminders could pop up when you entered the area as to what pams were held AND had been updated but not printed off as yet.

    A 10% check sheet could print off every so often with a list of pams to check for amendments and serviceablity.

    Oh, and Kindles. A4 size kindles. Or a4 size colour tablets in some cases.
  12. You don't have to be in Afghanistan for this to be a problem, I am in the UK and our DII is that slow it takes have the day to open the document to find out you have opened the wrong document.
  13. I have already knocked up a status signature sheet to slap in the front of my pubs, that is once my local management has generated a local procedure to cover us. That said the company (QinetiQ, lucky me) obviously has an overall policy and procedure regarding tech pubs and docs to that could be a brick wall if they (principally the Airworthiness spanners) don't like the idea, veto it and insist on the online pubs being used.

    I know Llangennech weren't perfect but at least there was a single central source which is now far from the case, especially when we cover Army, Navy and RAF aircraft and kit. For example the guys in the ejection seat bay have current books as hard copy, on the Defence Intranet, Trilogiview (Tornado), TDOL and CD. Seems quite mad to me and wide open for stuff to go pear shaped.

    Thanks for your comments so far all.
  14. How about this for a simple idea (probably too simple for the MoD). You can access TDOL and view publications like you do now but you have to register to download them, that way if an ammendment or rewrite comes out to a publication you've downloaded you get an email alert warning you.......
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  15. That's not really that simple on DII. Especially considering I move every 2 years regardless and may not get a role based account.