Douglas Carswell&Daniel Hannan:The Plan

As much as I hate putting any of my rapidly disappearing wealth into the pocket of a politico I decided to buy 'The Plan' written by Dan Hannan and Douglas Carswell.

I justified this to myself with the rationale that should I meet Dan in person I would of spent the money I spent on his book on buying him a few beers for his eloquent delivery of what I think (in my very mildest of moments) to Gordon Browns face.

For those few who have not seen it....three minutes of absolute pleasure

Well I have read and digested what they have to say,namely that our system of democracy is in its death throws and we need a change,desperately.

For those that dont know what the premise of the book is,it is a 12 month plan to turn our failed parlimentary system into a direct democracy system.

To cut a long story short here is the man on his own blog.

The Plan:telegraph

As I said I have read the book and it has actually left me feeling that there is hope for us yet...its always darkest before the dawn,so the saying goes.

So to prevent this post from becoming a blatant plug for the book,has anyone else read it?

If so what do you think?

And if not its a few quid from amazon and,especially in these bleakest of times,I cannot recommend it enough.
 

smallbore

Old-Salt
I have not read the book but I saw the speech.

Also have seen him on TV. Sound, very sound.
 
armchair_jihad said:
I have been thinking of getting the book and will now do so

I am glad to hear it and if just one extra person gets the book then job done in my eyes.

I have posted it as it seems to be the answer to so many of our problems over here.

Trawling the threads on ARRSE there are constant complaints about the welfare state,MP and civil service corruption,quangos,the EU (the mother of all quangos),squandered wealth,the destruction of civil liberty,failed defence procurement and funding.....the list is endless.

But worst of all is the sense of sheer desperation and helplessness that I keep seeing in some of the posts.How many times have we seen recently....'yes I will email my MP/sign this petition/vote a certain way...but it wont change anything'.

If it does not change anything then we are not a democracy.

The Plan is a manifesto,of sorts,on how to sort everything out within a twelve month legislative program.Having read the proposals it is not going to be difficult to change things as long as the will is there to do it.

It will take power away from the quango state we live in and return it to the people who should have it.Us.

The best thing is that it is not a complicated or poorly thought through proposal....it WILL work and it WILL deliver.

Should the tories adopt it as the core of any party manifesto and implement it in whole,not pick and choose,I believe that Cameron could go down in history as one of the greatest Prime ministers we have every had.

Let me know what you think.
 

overpromoted

Old-Salt
Should the tories adopt it as the core of any party manifesto and implement it in whole,not pick and choose,I believe that Cameron could go down in history as one of the greatest Prime ministers we have every had.

Undoubtedly. But why the hell would they? It's like our electoral system: Everyone in Parliament knows that it's shite, and that it disadvantages the smaller parties as well as those whose support isn't concentrated in geographical areas. But the Tories and Labour do well out of it, which is why it doesn't change.
 
Two little words which explain why smaller parties shouldn't get power:

Lembit Opik
 
Herrumph said:
Two little words which explain why smaller parties shouldn't get power:

Lembit Opik

The thing about this is that it is not about the monolithic party system as we know it.

And it is certainly not a form of PR which would open the floodgates to mentalist losers such as Opik.(unless of course the people where he stands actually want that type of person in,he would be sussed out quick smart without the party machine to hide within).

It is simply about making those that wield any sort of political power directly accountable to those they represent.If anything it would be a boon to independents....if a person does a good job for your area then they will stay,if not they will be out.MP's will HAVE to do what they are meant to do....represent the express wishes of those that they proport to represent.

The talentless and self interested will be removed from the political scene,believe it or not.

I will say again this is NOT any form of PR.It is a plan to return our democracy to health using best practice from around the world tailored to our unique set of circumstances in the UK.

As you can tell I am right behind this...and I am far from a political cheerleader.
 
insert-coin-here said:
I am glad to hear it and if just one extra person gets the book then job done in my eyes.....

Let me know what you think.

Very, very good so far, I have just binned a night with the bird so I can finish it.
 

overpromoted

Old-Salt
Herrumph said:
Two little words which explain why smaller parties shouldn't get power:

Lembit Opik

Two words why larger parties shouldn't get power:

Gordon Brown.

I'm also a little suspicious of giving more power to local government. Think of your local council and all the incompetence, waste and petty corruption that goes on. Are these people you want to entrust with the same level of power as the Scottish Parliament?
 
overpromoted said:
Herrumph said:
Two little words which explain why smaller parties shouldn't get power:

Lembit Opik

Two words why larger parties shouldn't get power:

Gordon Brown.

I'm also a little suspicious of giving more power to local government. Think of your local council and all the incompetence, waste and petty corruption that goes on. Are these people you want to entrust with the same level of power as the Scottish Parliament?

That was exactly what sprang to my mind when trying to absorb the concept.

The Plan is about total reform...through the ballot box...the way it should be.Regional 'government' will be dismantled,local government will be transformed beyond recognition.People will get what they want from those they elect at last....no more quango's pretending to be county councils.

I really suggest you read the book,you owe Dan Hannan a few beers anyway :D
 

Tory_Lies!

Clanker
insert-coin-here said:
Trawling the threads on ARRSE there are constant complaints about the welfare state,MP and civil service corruption,quangos,the EU (the mother of all quangos),squandered wealth,the destruction of civil liberty,failed defence procurement and funding.....the list is endless.

But worst of all is the sense of sheer desperation and helplessness that I keep seeing in some of the posts.How many times have we seen recently....'yes I will email my MP/sign this petition/vote a certain way...but it wont change anything'.

If it does not change anything then we are not a democracy.

The Plan is a manifesto,of sorts,on how to sort everything out within a twelve month legislative program.Having read the proposals it is not going to be difficult to change things as long as the will is there to do it.

It will take power away from the quango state we live in and return it to the people who should have it.Us.

The best thing is that it is not a complicated or poorly thought through proposal....it WILL work and it WILL deliver.

Should the tories adopt it as the core of any party manifesto and implement it in whole,not pick and choose,I believe that Cameron could go down in history as one of the greatest Prime ministers we have every had.

Tory Lies!
 
Hello ashie, any news concerning your Dads service with the Gurkhas? I am curious why somebody with such a family connection would not want to comment on the Gurkha thread, or is it all made up?

Here's the original post to jog your memory

armchair_jihad:
ashie:

Actually I do have an opinion. My Dad served alongside the Gurkhas during WWII. I just don't feel the urge to share it.


Giggle, utter tosh, an invented family connection to try and close the line of questioning down, up along your mention of working alongside senior officers, one of whom 'popped in to see me 15 minutes ago', when your association the the Military was, quite rightly, called into question.

Third rate New Labour antics that really only worked 5 or 6 years ago for most people ashie. We are wise to t*rds like you now.

PM me your Dads service details and if I have been mistaken on this matter, which we both know I have not, then I shall apologise.

Go on then.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
I'll get it and read it - After I've finished 'Illustrated Manual of Sniper Skills' by Mark Spicer
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
Have not read the book, but from what I've seen he isn't proposing direct democracy - it's representative democracy with a couple of trendy add-ons.

Direct democracy would require national sovereignty to be transfered from the institutions of state to the people. This isn't it. Referendum would remain as simply suggestion - parliament isn't obliged to follow them, and you couldn't change the law to make referendums binding because parliament could repeal that law if it wished. Adding more directly elected officials like sheriff's (policing by popularity contest - what could possibly go wrong?) would also only be done because parliament allowed it.

You could in theory completely restructure the constitutional order of the UK (good luck with that) to move national sovereignty from state institutions to people. But the host of problems you'd get with that explains why the state has existed around the world for as long as it has. The main problem is that any decision made would only be legitimate if over 50% of people agreed with it. You can't work like this as nothing would ever get done. Everything down to the number of paper-clips the MoD ordered would require the consent of the people, as opposed to simply being legitimated by the sovereignty and supreme power of the state. Of course the people could assign someone to make such decision on their behalf, but then it stops being direct democracy.
 
parapauk said:
Have not read the book..........

Well then I suggest you do before commenting further, I just have and I am going to read it again right now before I put my oar in.
 
insert-coin-here said:
I am glad to hear it and if just one extra person gets the book then job done in my eyes.....

Let me know what you think.

Excellent and do-able it seems that the thinking is really influencing the tories given some very recent announcements.

Also in my eyes it will make the current debt disaster more managable Politically.

I'm just going to go through it again now just to make sure I got it all.

We may even end up thanking Brown for making it possible 8O
 

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