Double maths, English and a spot of shooting

#1
Full article here:

Grauniad Linky

Excerpt:

The number of schools introducing rifle ranges for pupils has surged since ministers backed shooting sports last year, say gun groups.

One local authority is reportedly seeking to introduce shooting at 16 of its schools, and an academy due to open in September in a deprived area of south Bristol is believed to be the first of the government's flagship schools to have an on-site shooting range.

The National Small-bore Rifle Association (NSRA) told the Guardian there had been a 6% rise in membership from schools since Richard Caborn, then sports minister, backed the sport last May.

Sponsors of the Merchants' Academy, in Bristol, said the sport "encourages discipline", but campaigners and teachers condemned the move, saying it sent the wrong message to children in inner-city areas affected by violent crime.

With official figures this week revealing a 4% year on year increase in gun crime, campaigners have called for a moratorium on gun sports in schools.




Irritates the fcuk out of me to see people associating disciplined rifle training with gun crime. Does our entire society now sh1t itself every time the word "gun" is spoken?

I'd like to know what Arrsers think about this. My tuppence-worth says I'd like to see my kids learning sensible gun handling as soon as they're old enough. And self-defence too for that matter. And basic field craft ... gonna shut up now before I start raving about national service and turn into a blimp ... :x
 
#2
The "campaigners" comprise Gill Marshall Andrews, her Labour MP husband Bob and Mick North. The "Gun Control Network" certainly doesn't have more than six members. I can't think of any other organisation with so few members that gets consulted by the media.

They certainly shout loud don't they?
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
The funny thing is, provided you've got enough land, you can get a rifle or shotgun licence WITHOUT any form of formal training.

If you want to drive a car, you have to take a rigorous test, if you wish to go on deer stalking holidays, you have to have a training certificate.

There should be a training requirement for first-time firearms licence applicants.

Other than that, I'm all for gun ownership. As for teaching shooting in schools - 100% behind it.

The Gun Control Network, just like the gobment, hasn't got the first idea about gun control.

The stop naughty people using guns, what did the gobment do? Banned pistol ownership, banned the sale sof realistic replicas!?!?

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but the number of gun crimes, especially with pistols is climbing ever higher. If Joe Muppet wants to stick up a local convenience store, and he can't get a replica pistol, what's he going to get instead - oh yes, a readily available illegal LIVE pistol, which all the firearms laws introduced by two gobments have failed even remotely to do anything about.

It's no different to the CSA in that respect. Can't find the bad guys? Well, nail the ones you can find - the respectable ones. At least the figures look good.
 
J

jimuk80

Guest
#5
My Dad took me shooting from the age of 12 and as a result i have a deep respect for firearms. The legislation bought in years ago to stop people owning pistols and the like was a complete joke. At the time even if you had a pistol you werent allowed to keep it at home, it had to be kept at your local range. Very little gun crime has EVER been carried out by people with legally owned firearms. Even our olympic team has to go to France to practice. In Switzerland there is an Army issue rifle in more or less every house and everyone over the age of 20 has to attend trainig. The only people that have them in this country are criminals.
I think teaching kids to respect firearms would be far better than just saying "guns are bad m'kay".
 
#6
Blimey. Apparently it'll lead to more US style school massacres - I distinctly remember knocking off half the population of Midlothian in the late 80's after being exposed to the mind-bending vapours of Youngs .303... not.

And what exactly is a 'gun group'? Apart from the definitive sign of a lazy journalist groping for a cliche?

Mentioning the word 'gun' these days is the equivalent of mentioning 'bomb' in the check-in queue at the airport - the meeja go into overdrive and all these 'gun' groups pop up.

How exactly do these idiots imagine you're going to conceal a full length target rifle about your person as you stroll out of the door? Extremely large trousers?
 
#7
Biped said:
If you want to drive a car, you have to take a rigorous test,
Er, so why is the standard of driving on motorways (in particular) so poor?

Oh yes, that's because you can't drive on one as a learner...

msr
 
#8
WhiteHorse said:
Who runs these ranges at schools?
CCF officers/teachers or other suitably qualified staff. All for it. I shot at various levels up to national whilst at school and then shot up to Army level in the mob. Teaches responsibility and is great fun too.
 
#9
I think we should be able to teach safe handling of weapons to any pupil who's interested, in the same way we teach them how to use woodwork tools. The answer that "they kill people" is stupid, inaccurate and irrelevant. Cars kill more people, yet you don't see a ban on driving lessons; quite the contrary, the solution presented to that is to improve the teaching.

And anyway, IMO the only 'gun group' that should be allowed an opinion on this issue is commanded by the Section 2IC.
 

Mr_Fingerz

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
It's a good article, spoiled only by the quote from some woman from "Mothers Against Murder" (are any of them actually in favour of murder?) who said something along the lines of "we shouldn't let children have toy guns at five, or access to real ones at fifteen" and had another quote about "gun violence" prominently displayed on the page.

It's enough to make me want to write to the editor to explain that there's balance, and there's balance.
 
#11
Biped said:
The funny thing is, provided you've got enough land, you can get a rifle or shotgun licence WITHOUT any form of formal training.

If you want to drive a car, you have to take a rigorous test, if you wish to go on deer stalking holidays, you have to have a training certificate.

There should be a training requirement for first-time firearms licence applicants.

Other than that, I'm all for gun ownership. As for teaching shooting in schools - 100% behind it.

The Gun Control Network, just like the gobment, hasn't got the first idea about gun control.

The stop naughty people using guns, what did the gobment do? Banned pistol ownership, banned the sale sof realistic replicas!?!?

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but the number of gun crimes, especially with pistols is climbing ever higher. If Joe Muppet wants to stick up a local convenience store, and he can't get a replica pistol, what's he going to get instead - oh yes, a readily available illegal LIVE pistol, which all the firearms laws introduced by two gobments have failed even remotely to do anything about.

It's no different to the CSA in that respect. Can't find the bad guys? Well, nail the ones you can find - the respectable ones. At least the figures look good.
My bold: Not true. Might be required by some estates but is certainly not universal.

I'm all for training but I don't see the need for it be mandatory. It's addressing a problem that doesn't really exist.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#12
msr said:
Biped said:
If you want to drive a car, you have to take a rigorous test,
Er, so why is the standard of driving on motorways (in particular) so poor?

Oh yes, that's because you can't drive on one as a learner...

msr
Whereas, if you could learn motorway driving as part of your lessons/test, you wouldn't sit in the overtaking lane without a car being there to overtake. There'd be less crashes too.

I'll take the 'rigorous' bit back - good point. :D

Edited to add: ExStab - thanks for the correction - I thought it was these days.

As for the problem of dangerous incompetent legal gun owners not existing, well, I have it in mind that this is more luck than judgement, and also the factor that most firearms owners have been taught by peers or family members. There certainly can be no harm in training.

This leads me on to the stupidity of firearms control. If you have a rifle licence, you have to demonstrate (on renewal) that you are using your weapon enough to justify the licence. The way you do this is by showing that you buy ammunition on a semi-regular basis. Without doing so, they are likely to take away your licence. This strikes me as dumb. If you require no skill to get the licence in the first place, it can't be argued that your skills might become rusty. Why should you HAVE to shoot on a semi-regular basis to keep a licence for a weapon that you might only wish to use once in a blue moon, for example, when a boar makes its presence felt? Simply to keep your licence on this basis, you might be required (and many people are) to shoot at nothing, for no other reason than you are obliged to to keep your licence.
 
#13
Lyn Costello, co-founder of Mothers Against Murder and Aggression which campaigns against street violence, said: "Guns are made to kill, they have no other use."
Women are made for re-producing. They have no other use
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#14
EX_STAB said:
The "campaigners" comprise Gill Marshall Andrews, her Labour MP husband Bob and Mick North. The "Gun Control Network" certainly doesn't have more than six members. I can't think of any other organisation with so few members that gets consulted by the media.They certainly shout loud don't they?
The libdems?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#15
Wasnt Lynn Costello raided by armed plod who found a gun in her house?
 
#16
Mr_Fingerz said:
It's a good article, spoiled only by the quote from some woman from "Mothers Against Murder" (are any of them actually in favour of murder?)
And Aggression, don't forget the aggression. Very naughty that, apparently it's frowned upon as well.
 
#17
We had 2 Rifle Ranges at my school, small bore and full-bore. I think there were two, Blue_Sophist was at the same school and can possibly confirm.

Education about guns and consequences made available to a wider youth audience than just cadet forces could only be beneficial surely?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#18
Definetly, here in Gods Waiting Room we have about 3 or 4 public schools, one of them did really well at Bisley but curiously the local comp next door had the GB junior girls U16 3 position smallbore champ. My wife was a teaching assistant. The school also had a girl U16 clay pigeon GB champ. Neither were encouraged by the school and they both did everything outside of school. Good parents I guess.
Both my lads can shoot and often accompany me stalking or rough shooting. We have enough land for a 600 yard range so we use it!
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#19
It would be an interesting study to find out how many ex-members of the pre-service cadet forces have ended up in trouble for committing firearms offences or even other crimes of violence.

I would not mind betting that, despite their firearms training and other aggressive warlike training there are a lot less of them in trouble compared to their non-cadet peers.
 
#20
Current rise in gun crime in UK is not due to "shooting lessons", rather to complete luck of law and order, a failure of softly-softly approach to criminals.
 

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